World: r3wp

It sounds as though there is still a huge amount of work to be done 
before R3 is going to be ready.

Well the API wasn't finalized even then, and then would have needed 
to change drastically with the Unicode changes. That doesn't even 
include Carl's current rewrites or the unfinished tasking model.

New blog!  http://www.rebol.net/r3blogs/0147.html

Henrik - very good POV ....

Terry - why are you constantly demotivated? You may as well take 
another aproach - use rebol free technologies, you will be safe this 
way. Watch R3, it can only surprise you, or it can fail, but you 
will not be hurt ...

As for FF, they receive money from Google only because Google is 
preset as default search engine. We might do similar if R3 browser 
gets popular :-) At OSNews, I also suggested Google to adopt REBOL, 
as it is THE ONLY small RIA technology along to Flash, SilverLight., 
which is a complete platform ...

terry's cup is always half empty

It is good to have Terry here otoh, or I thought I am the most depressed 
person about REBOL here :-)

After reading Henrik's post, I also think we found RT a good REBOL 
advocate ;-)

Henrik - re new name for REBOL browser. You mentioned "side" effect 
or so .... I think that the best so far is FireSide, even if .com 
domain is chosen ... it suggest Fire as in FireFox, FireBird, and 
we aproach it from side. Of course we could come-up with anything 
else ...

call it WMD browser

Graham, that won't work. USA users wouldn't find it. :-)

LOL

The rest of the world would believe it wasn't real if we claimed 
to find it.  ;-)

Rebol as being 'half empty or half full' .. either way, is a good 
metaphor.

Be serious. There's no way you can pull the necessary resources together 
to build anything like a browser. Just won't happen.  Call that 'half-empty', 
if you want.. I call it 45:1 odds against it every happening.. any 
takers?

Terry - you are starting to be boring with your attitude. Those naysayers 
like you, always claim anything like that before some product becomes 
eventually popular.

If by "like a browser" you mean implement HTML rendering and styling, 
a JavaScript interpreter and all of that, then I agree. If you want 
to implement a REBOL browser, then you are dead wrong. It's not the 
browser part that is the hard part.

I meant the former

I don't see the point to the former.

If the html browser part is seperate from the rebol "bowser" (as 
a plug-in using web kit?) it would not be too tuff.

That is also not what Carl is doing.

I don't see the part to implementing an HTML browser at all - we 
already have those, and they suck.

part -> point

I can see the point to implementing a compiler from a REBOL dialect 
to HTML/CSS/JavaScript though.

html borwser would allow rebol to infiltrate the masses...No one 
will use rebol only browser if they can't also access google or any 
of their other favorite sites. A An html plug-in could activate when 
an html page is requesteed...?

No, an HTML browser would not allow REBOL to infiltrate the masses 
because they already have HTML browsers and most of them don't want 
to switch. I can see the point to making something that works in 
the browser that they already have, but not one that would require 
them to switch browsers because that would fail.

They would switch for the added benifits rebol pages would provide 
but they would still be able to accesshtml until those sites cought 
up to speed...

It would be better to work with their existing browser because they 
won't switch. I may not even like Firefox but I can't switch.

It needs some good apps that force people to use it. Onec they know 
they can use it alos for html why would they open two browsers if 
one does can handle both types of web content.

No, if we are going to force them to use something other than HTML/CSS/JavaScript/Flash/Silverlight? 
it would either have to work in their existing browser, or be something 
seperate that just gets installed with an app they already want, 
as a side effect.

Personally, I don't want HTML browser overhead in my REBOL browser.

The latter...exactly.

I'm building an app that works great as a standalone app but I can 
see it working in this "browser" thing as the rebol "browser" I believe 
will be proving a framework to extend my app..things like caht, file 
sharing, and other things not yet thought of. If i I have a base 
of users and I stear them to use the browser as it will provide additional 
benifits to my app..that's a bunch of people nows using it that will 
quickly discover they can also rech the html web. Why us ie or firefox?

proving>providing

For that matter, unless you support their existing web services that 
they already have their data or the data they already want in it, 
it won't matter. That means their existing webmail account and Flash 
video. If you can't play YouTube (and RedTube, ...) it won't matter.


People don't care about the underlying technology unless they are 
techs. If you make a REBOL browser so that you can do REBOL stuff, 
and then try to support the old web stuff thinking that people will 
try the REBOL stuff and find it to be better, you will be wrong. 
Most people won't be able to tell the difference, because it isn't 
the technology that matters, it is the content. If you have the best 
content available in the most convenient way, people will install 
your software to get at it, whatever your software is written in.

The real advantage to the REBOL browser isn't web integration, it 
is taking the real advantages of the web (aside from installed base) 
and applying those to REBOL, but better because we don't have that 
legacy markup crap.

Agreed

agree again

We are not going to compete with Flash directly, not unless we can 
provide a better source of free videos of cats running on treadmills 
than Youtube. The only company that can kill Flash/Silverlight video 
is Google, because they can add HTML 5 video to every open source 
browser and switch Youtube to use it. Nothing that the REBOL community 
can do will work on that scale.

It is thus better for us to do something that Flash can't do, rather 
than to try to beat Flash at its own game (like Silverlight).

Agree here also, I want cross platform GUI where the rebol browser 
provides UI and other services to applications not just content. 
 The value in the Google applications is not their quality (which 
is okay) but in the access from anywhere feature.  The HTML/Browser 
is trying to grow into the application space but is really at a disadvantage 
because of the technology.

Links, discovery via search, anywhere access these are good things 
that can also be done with the networking strength of REBOL, no need 
to saddle that with HTML/CSS and the whole mess of patchwork technologies 
layered on top.

anything we can build in rebol can be built with another technology

Rebol is a niche product, and unless it reaches critical mass (of 
developers) will probably remain that way.

That said, I've been discussing a new project that will probably 
use Rebol

Critical mass is a challenge for sure.  I've been bouncing around 
all the "popular" technologies for some time while earning my keep 
with old fashioned database applications.  Some are very interesting 
and have good strengths, none are making creating solutions easier 
or even better in most cases.

I'm not sold reaching critical mass is what we should be chasing 
just yet.

The concepts behind Rebol are too left field for critical mass. Genius 
is not always appreciated.

Everything is a niche product, even Flash. There is no general purpose 
product. Find your niche and go for it.

For me, critical mass is being able to use REBOL for work and my 
research and not have it be career ending. I'm there already :)