World: r3wp
[!REBOL3-OLD1]
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Pekr 9-Oct-2008 [7284] | According to your words, it seems that you and Henrik have access to the code, right? :-) Have you studied Gabriele's VID too? How do those compare? |
Henrik 9-Oct-2008 [7285] | I have no access to the code. |
Pekr 9-Oct-2008 [7286] | but how would BrianH know details about new resizing model, not having the code? :-) |
Anton 9-Oct-2008 [7287x2] | Carl does write occassionally.. |
occasionally | |
BrianH 9-Oct-2008 [7289x4] | Since I have implemented resizing models in the past, Carl discussed his new model with me when he came out of hiding. I don't have access to the code yet, but I can figure out things based on knowledge of REBOL, conversations with Carl, and mostly his writings and docs. |
Petr, I am aware of the TeX model and its tradeoffs. | |
Every system is built on compromises, even TeX and Gabriele's VID. The trick in design is making the right ones. | |
Actually, make-gobs was implemented to make the UI fast. Gabriele's VID had to do a lot of calculations in the Draw blocks, and when you combine that with the resize overhead it added up. He added make-gobs to precalculate some of those Draw calculations. | |
Pekr 9-Oct-2008 [7293] | Interesting. VLC player 0.9.2 used cross-platform own file dialog, 0.9.4 uses native one. |
Gabriele 13-Oct-2008 [7294x3] | Brian, I disagree that my system was slow. Indeed, I don't think you can do it much faster unless you make it more low level (ie. users need to specify more). Even then, I still think the speed would be the same. |
make-gobs wasn't required - let's see what happens when Henrik tries to add his graphics. | |
Brian... it's not like my vid had to do a lot of calculations. ANY VID will have to do a lot of calculations. You can write all that manually (my proto2) or have a system that writes the code for you (make-gobs). There is no third option (well, you could interpret instead of compiling in something like make-gobs, but you won't like that). | |
Henrik 13-Oct-2008 [7297] | I never got the chance to try out make-gobs, but it did seem to solve a complexity problem on the DRAW level by giving it for example an internal resizing model, which is very important for properly made GUI graphics.. |
Anton 13-Oct-2008 [7298] | Hmmm........ |
BrianH 13-Oct-2008 [7299x2] | Gabriele, you can make it faster by simplifying the resize model, thus needing fewer calculations and less precompilation. |
A simpler resize model is also easier to write code for - less fiddly for the less supreme programmer. | |
Gabriele 14-Oct-2008 [7301x4] | I may have not been clear. Given the goal of having the system figure out how to best resize in all conditions, I don't think you can make it simpler or faster; the TeX model is the simplest and fastest (because you can precompute most of the values) that I know. |
If you have a different goal, then you can be faster. For example, if you use something like my make-gobs for faces too, then you can compile a resize function that will be as fast as if it was hand-written (if you optimize well). | |
That is a simpler resize model in that you have to specify all the constraints yourself, and it does not do tabular alignments automatically for you. | |
When you want tabular alignments, I don't think you can do much better even if you code the resize function by hand, with the exception of special cases like all faces being the same size and things like that. | |
Robert 14-Oct-2008 [7305] | Gab, do you plan or already do continue your VID approach? I think we have to do some trade-offs between what VID can do in terms of simplicity and features. I think we should try your approach and Carl's on a realy world app to see what fits best. Maybe it's a good idea to have a Simple-VID (for smaler tools) and a Fullfledged-VID (for big apps). |
Pekr 14-Oct-2008 [7306] | ... especially in the case when Gab's VID was 90% complete? |
shadwolf 14-Oct-2008 [7307x7] | robert why not but that will make again another rebolVM split how to differencie what VID version the app you are going to use need |
don't that will lead to a "Ho man that program is bugged it crash when i try to use it !!" and in fact the rebol script just needs the VID++ 2 turbo alpha ++ version | |
the rebol politics is rebol is all you need to do software | |
I'm agree that's a pity to abandon a work such advanced and that demotive alot the comunity | |
gabriele worked hard to get his new VID and when it's all most complet Carl come with a better plan and trash out Gab's work that's not a good example to motive the comminuty to participate on further project where rebol content is directly conserned | |
How about adding the GAB VID into ORCA ? | |
i'm sure Sillabe would like it even if Carl doesn"t | |
Henrik 14-Oct-2008 [7314x3] | I'm now able to study the R3 GUI source code. |
As far as I can tell there are animation effects in it as well as a small suite of debug tools. Each source file is really small, around 2-8 kb with a few going above 10 kb. Fully commented and very clean. | |
Running the GUI now. It's... colorful :-) | |
Graham 14-Oct-2008 [7317] | elastic? |
Henrik 14-Oct-2008 [7318] | meaning? |
Graham 14-Oct-2008 [7319] | resizing is automatic and good? |
Henrik 14-Oct-2008 [7320x6] | resizing is automatic, but buggy. there is a list of known bugs. |
there are animations in the GUI and I can resize the entire window while they play. | |
They are transitional animations and are fully interruptible. | |
http://rebol.hmkdesign.dk/files/r3/gui/001.png Skin is for testing purposes. | |
Carl says the animation system is a simple prototype. | |
Mostly because events are not yet pushed correctly to it. So it's an event based animation system. | |
Graham 14-Oct-2008 [7326] | automatic scrollbars? |
Henrik 14-Oct-2008 [7327] | meaning? |
Pekr 14-Oct-2008 [7328] | aaaah, what a mixture of colors :-) |
Henrik 14-Oct-2008 [7329] | Pekr, well, that's Carl's work. :-) |
Pekr 14-Oct-2008 [7330x2] | so we've got "transition" effect? What are they used for? |
.e.g. change of tabs/windows? | |
Henrik 14-Oct-2008 [7332] | The GUI feels fairly quick, but Carl says there is still a lot of optimization and caching to be done. This won't happen until he feels the entire system works correctly. |
Pekr 14-Oct-2008 [7333] | btw: what do you mean by "each source file" - is the code now organised more in the RebGUI way? E.g. each "widget" being one file? |
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