World: r3wp

We really need to get to the state, where others can start to participate. 
And it will happen only if there is some kind of DevBase functional 
and Carl ready to upload R3 sources in there. I do understand the 
need for the existance of supporting infrastructure, but it can be 
done in parallel. We constantly wait for this or that, instead of 
releasing something ..

I'm reminded of an old Amiga product ... Fantavision

well, I've said my piece... back to coding

Graham: Carl replied on f3-alpha

Graham, I think you need to review the concept of web-public.

Pekr, Carl has said that the PARSE enhancements have been put on 
the backburner until the release, but he'll get to them afterwards. 
This means that we won't get the enhanced PARSE in the next developer 
release.

never minds. I say - release on monthly basis, ppl will sort it out. 
Those releases are really needed, even if supporting infrastructure 
is not there. We have clever devs here, we can sort it out and work 
on things in parallel. Simply put - give ppl somting, and they will 
shut up :-)

Do you promise?

Kaj - this is unnecessary invective. I am not little chaild to be 
taught by others, how should I behave.

I didn't mean it that way. I'm not telling you, I'm asking

The thing is, I doubt people will ever shut up

I am simply not buying and agreeing to everything Carl says, just 
because he is well respected guru. If you think I attack Carl or 
others, you are wrong. I am just against some basic principles of 
management .

While a lot of the criticism here is justified, it's not in this 
case, because it makes perfect sense in the current course of development

Imagine that you know how to drive teams. You are doing it on daily 
basis. Last month, my team finished SAP R3 upgrade - 30 ppl involved. 
Without a glitch. I feel how to move forward, but I also feel being 
unheard. But - I talked to Carl almost on daily basis few months 
ago. The thing is, he agrees to many of my points, it is just we 
somehow can't find the way of how to make things work faster in practice.

Sure, but your business is not Carl's business. Your methods don't 
extend to developing the system software REBOL

my methods

 are general project management methods, why should it differ for 
 R3? The real problem imo is, that Carl is used to work either in 
 really small teams, or alone. I can understand his pov about the 
 code quality, and imo it is difficult for hime to find "leutenants", 
 but at least BrianH imo passes the requirement. Pity Ladislav is 
 not awailable anymore.

For one thing, as I said, because your not doing system software

You're also not doing innovative software, you're rolling our an 
existing, traditional solution

You're also not doing social software in a loosely connected community, 
you're doing line-of-business softtware in command-and-control organisation

how does it differ? Innovation lays in the design process. I am not 
saying a word for how guys decide about the design. But then, when 
you are supposed to release, the processes are really identical - 
relese, communication, team management, etc. Or am I really wrong 
here?

I think you'll be able to read that in management books. It's a complex 
matter

We have (not web-public) groups for this kind of chat.

Too late...

Not too late to switch.

What is the problem with such a chat being web public? I am not trying 
to hide anything ...

Yes, it's relevant

There are relevant discussions, but that is not the criteria for 
a web public group. You need to consider everything written here 
to be advertising copy, not just arguments amongst ourselves. This 
is not the place for negativity and defeatism.

I am used to face "problems" as they come. We will come to some resolutions, 
and it will soon enough be hopefully the thing of the past, albeit 
recorded. It is goog we talk about all such things. But - no problem 
to get into private channel, if the group wishes for .....

That's what I mean, it's far too late for that

By far to late, you mean that you can't unsay something?

In AltME, yes, and it's also far too late for RT to prevent these 
opinions

I'm not used to hiding problems.... burying my head in sand.  The 
problems exist.  No point in pretending they don't.

I hope we can have open discussions.

And yes, I am fully aware of what a web-public forum is.

I think I have just made it clear that I don't think it's too late 
for R3. Far from it, as the point is that we are very near to being 
able to start with it, and good progress is being made

I'm sure the one or two rebolers left when it is released will find 
it very productive.

We have places for these discussions - this is a productive group. 
Never mind, that is the last I'll talk about this subject here. No 
more meta-discussions, back to the real work :)

work = force x distance

if you never travel the distance, you're not doing the work

That's cool, we will have the best competitive advantage ever :-)

and no release = no distance

That's the misinterpretation that bothers me. It is clear to me that 
distance is being traveled all the time

Anyone wonder why so many rebolers are not helping with the R3 effort 
??

I am not a physicist, Graham, I am a programmer. There is little 
force and infinite distance involved in my work.

Because they know they are wasting their time ... they are not being 
heard.

Carl is indifferent to their concerns.  He pretends he hears, but 
he is deaf.

Well said, Brian. There's also a point in our work where it becomes 
too innovative for outsiders to understand

All those mini-polls he hold .. never a decision is made.

He pretends to engage in the community.  But that is all it is .. 
a pretense while he carries on his own agenda.

That's what some people think, but they just can't see