World: r3wp

ok

must go. I'll be back tomorrow.

Is there any way to get our hands on the latest Alpha build?  I would 
like to start to plan for migration to REBOL3 of some scripts and 
plan for REBOL3 in current work.  Especially regarding ports and 
series handling.

http://www.rebol.net/builds/rebol3/alpha/rebol29904031.zip

jan 08

Is that the latest?  I thought there was a bunch of port work since 
then?

latest public version ...

That is the latest public release, it does not include unicode support.

Why do you think we have been arguing for a newer public release??

ok - thanks Graham.  I think I already got that one.

Carl has promised a new release in "a few hours" in his latest blog.

cool - thanks PeterWoo

hmm ... heard it all before

To be more accurate "With luck, within the next few hours."

Yeah just read that last sentence on the blog.

Good, I may be able to make something cool for when it gets released.

I think it is worth remembering that it is an alpha version not a 
beta. It is still likely to change a lot before a beta is released.

I must have been grumbling louder than I thought if he could hear 
me in ukiah

Well I have to think at this point the ports would most likely be 
pretty much finished since ports are so fundamental to so many other 
things in REBOL.

For example, somebody stated that the GUI does not yet handle unicode 
strings.

Keep Grumbling Graham!  lol.

But the lower level Unicode stuff is done I think if I recall correctly.

Personally, I''m doubtful of the value of a new release at this stage 
other than a tangible display of progress. From all that has been 
told in public, this release will have lots of unfinished code and 
no doubts lots of loose ends.

Peter - half a piece of cake is better than none if you're ( intellectually 
) starving.

Actually, Paul brings up the value of a release at this point: We 
need R3 apps for development to continue at this stage. We are at 
a point where we need people to write stuff that uses what we have 
so far so we can shake out the bugs. To do that, we need to get what 
we have in the hands of more people.

It will be an exciting time. You won't be able to assume that your 
code will continue to run unchanged on future builds, but your code 
will influence the changes made in the future, and any bugs you run 
into will get fixed. It should be fun :)

Sounds like you're arguing for Carl to release now and not wait for 
his BBS script!

Does Carl ever get cognitive dissonance?

I would if he were talking about DevBase (and did), but I think you 
are overestimating just how long it will take to write. We aren't 
talking about a web forum here, it is clear from the blog that he 
is talking about a R3 GUI client. He can knock that out in no time.

3 hours?

Client to what?

We could write a server using the methods and code of DevBase - it 
wouldn't even have to run on R3 at first.

DevBase uses the database of AltME to store its data, has a working 
R/S interface, runs just fine. Change the data model and you would 
have a forum server. Servers are really very similar.

It doesn't even have to have a web interface at first, and then we 
could write one on Cheyenne.

Well, if that allows Doc to fix Cheyenne .. I'm all for that.

I think I'd like to a BBS based in the cloud eventually.

S3 for message storage, SDB for message tags and indices

SQS for chat.

By "eventually" and "not at first", I mean after the R3 release. 
We are already using Cheyenne for the bug tracker, and we will be 
putting in bug reports to that as well on the tracker itself. Bugs 
don't get fixed if they don't get noticed, and they don't get noticed 
if the tool isn't getting used. We need users for R3, and those users 
are apps.

I think we don't always realize that we are not the users on REBOL, 
our programs are. We just write the programs.

That's silly.

If there is no one to notice the errors ...

It's like saying the paint is the user of the canvas.

Naw, it's easy. Just think of the users of REBOL as being so stupid 
that they can't figure out how to solve any problem, but that they 
are the ones doing the work. The managers of our users need to be 
able to tell the users what to do with little understanding of how 
exactly our users actually do what they do. The programmers are the 
managers, the programs are the users. Our job is to mame it easy 
for the programs to do their jobs without requiring the programmers 
to learn so much about the internals that they are essentially doing 
the job of the programs. We want to reduce micromanagement.

mame -> make

http://www.rebol.net/wiki/RebTalk_Forum

First client prototype (30-Nov-2008) 8.1 KB in size, and first server, 
4.6 KB. Written by Carl Sassenrath.
 :)

and very busy already 

data: [
]
[command-error]

Now how to force a client update each time you change some functionality?

Perhaps the client should download the source each time ...