World: r3wp

Like Flash.

Aaahhh gotcha. Sorry for the confusion.

Yes, we're working on Mozilla support.

Being out of sync with each other can account for a lot misunderstanding..


I have but one interest, for Rebol to be a self standing usable glue 
for cool little apps on the web the same way Flash is for little 
animated vignettes.


For this to happen we HAVE to support the top 4 (IE FF SA and OP). 
 And Opera is about to GROW, and Rebol and Opera may turn out to 
be a match made in heaven.  Opera is the dominate browser of imbedded 
systems.  It will start making news in the next 4-6 months.

Hmm interesting you say that. I was thinking about that myself, as 
I have also fallen in love with Opera, but it currently has pathetic 
plugin support (it doesn't even support the Mozilla standard, only 
the ancient Netscape 4 API).

So, we're going to have to make a decision of whether to support 
Opera or not.....

And that's good feedback to have.

The main issue that's stopping us from full Opera support is scripting 
(Javascript -> REBOL -> Javascript). It uses this arcane infrastructure 
that was retired out of Netscape and Mozilla years ago. So, my question 
is, would you see REBOL succeeding on Opera *without* scripting support?

We should actually make contact with Opera's team directly.  They 
might be just as interested in Rebol as Rebol is in them.  I do not 
know anyone there ( I do know some of the FF team).  But I was planning 
to contact Opera soonish because I'm interested in working on a relationship 
where people buy a thintop (I'm coining this word for now) which 
is a super simple laptop with maybe a 1 gig sim card for memory, 
a keyboard, LCD display for lets say $100 bucks.   Has nothing BUT 
a browser (no OS….no M$ in other words).  I imagine this shipping 
with Opera built in, and I want it pointing to Qtask out of the gate.
 

So to answer your question, I think we need to get someone at Opera 
to take interest in Rebol, and help us solve problems.

Reichart, switching to private msg.

Now when it getsinteresting.. :)

: )  


no worries, I will update people of what we are doing on Qtask later 
as well....

You can buy those $100 laptops now from Negroponte's team.

Josh - Opera needs to be supported, definitely. The strange things 
is what you say, because the extended API announcement I pointed 
you to last time, was signed even by Opera company. Maybe you should 
check with Opera team ...

talk to the desktop team...(if that helps)

Josh - have you somehow resorted proxy detection? Without that, and 
without some ability to configure plug-in, many ppl will be unable 
to use plug-in ....

Pekr, regarding Opera: According to their plugin API page (http://www.opera.com/docs/pluginapi/), 
they only support NS4 w/LiveConnect. That's ancient.

Pekr, regarding proxy settings: If I remember correctly, we ended 
that conversation by realizing that get-net-info is the problem. 
So, whoever owns that REBOL code needs to fix it. This is all within 
the realm REBOL's network detection and not within the realm of the 
plugin itself.

You can buy those $100 laptops now from Negroponte's team.
  Yeah, they are literally down the street from me.

Josh - I joined Opera's plug-in newsgroup and asked the question 
about the npruntime plugin api. I found someone was asking exactly 
the same in 2005. They said "I believe we are working on it.  However, 
I don't know how far we've come with this yet." I really don't understand 
such statements, that person does not know if something is, or is 
not going on in the company he works for.

Josh - so is my understanding correct, that as far as Mozilla/FF 
goes, you are going to use npruntime extended API?

Pekr, yes, Moz/FF is built against npruntime and XPConnect (for scripting).

That new scripting API doesn't work for me in the latest FireFox, 
so they may have not implemented it yet....for now, we're just using 
XPConnect.

that is bad, how do you want to support certain features then, if 
you can't depend on it? Should I ask about latest FF and npruntime? 
What version of FF were you checking against?

btw - what advantage will npruntime version give us upon xpconnect 
one or old NS API one?

here's reply hopefully from Opera representative - 

> Hello guys,
> >

> > please what is the status of npruntime API extension? From following
> > link I can see, that Opera was part of the announcement:
> >
> > http://www.mozilla.org/projects/plugins/npruntime.html
> >
> > We would like to get Rebol working in browsers, so we are

> > investigating various browsers possibilities. It is a pity if 
Opera
> > still supports only rather arcane NS API.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Petr



Opera version 9 supports the npruntime interface now.  Unfortunately,

it is not well tested on linux (at least), since I have not found 
any
plug-ins that use it.  Bug reports are welcome  :) 

eirik

That's a good reply. I'll have to look at that again. It's not going 
to make this next release.

Pekr, do you or anyone else have a working C++ code sample of using 
NPObject with the GetValue method? That's what was giving me problems....if 
so, please send via private msg to keep this group free for discussion.

JoshM. Any chance you could produce the plugin for OSX?

All browsers in OSX use the mozilla plugin API.

Jaime, I'm sorry, that's currently not in the plan. You might want 
to talk to Carl about that.

(I should say, that's not in my plan. Carl may have plans for Mac 
that I don't know about....)

Steve sent a black MacBook to Carl asking him to return it in a month 
with a copy of Rapple, a customized dialect on top of rebol/base 
 that will  replace  AppleScript in 10.6, cause they need a more 
powerful and user friendly glue scriptig language, now that they 
have coreData,coreGraphics,ecc..

..and webkit people are thinking that rebol would better be integreted 
like javascript is, in the browser to rescue the world from all those 
web2.0 heavy cpu/memory consuming inbrowser javascript applications...

what are you smoking? :-)

That'd be nice.

hmm, DON'T install the new plugin, then go to the old demos page. 
the old plugin will overwrite the new one.

actually, that's only if youhaven't dumped the old one first.

There's good opportunity for Rebol here.. ie: konfabulator killer... 
corner the widget market, but without OSX support, it could be difficult.

please someone at RT, could you please remove most of user submitted 
demos? They don't work ...

Hi all....here's an update on what we're working on for the next 
plugin release:

 * Multiple instances -- this feature will allow you to run multiple 
 plugins side-by-side within the same IE or Mozilla process.

 * Automatic updating -- no more uninstall! (aren't we all thrilled? 
 :)). This will be the last update you will have to install manually 
 via uninstall/reinstall; future backwards-compatible updates will 
 come automatically (with user consent).

 * Smooth install on Mozilla -- FF and other Mozilla.org-based browsers 
 will have a smooth install experience similar to IE.

 * do-browser in Mozilla -- you will be able to interact with the 
 HTML page from your REBOL scripts in Mozilla browsers.

 * Last, but not least: Opera 9 support -- the plugin will be compatible 
 with Opera 9, although the install process will not be as smooth 
 as Mozilla & FF.

We're working hard on this release and hope to have it out soon.....thanks 
for your patience!

Pekr: Got it, thanks.

JoshM, thanks .... but Josh, to not ruin first experience, please 
fix proxy code :-)

Pekr, I already answered this question twice. Proxy code is not part 
of the plugin.

that does not make sense to me ...

We already went through this. get-net-info is REBOL code and part 
of /View itself.

it is not part of the plug-in, yet it is out of our influence to 
change it, or to manually do any settings to plug-in - no user.r 
:-)

so who is responsible, who should we contact?

If we could configure plug-in some-way, those behind proxy would 
at least normally edit their user.r and do some tweakings, not so 
with proxy ....

eh, not so with plug-in version I mean :-)