World: r3wp

huh, I have to comment something.. I went looking what curecode looks 
like .. and founc this one http://curecode.org/rebol3/view-tickets.rsp
.. when I am clicking links the page reloaded so quickly that I couldn't 
determine if you are doing an ayax call or the whole page is reloading 
and I can't see it.. I also noticed this on my cheyenne projects. 


I don't get how you managed to do this. There are numerous servers 
outthere and rebol is not the fastest language and I haven't seen 
something like that anywhere?!?!? I mean I think also the static 
pages that you load from some webserver take some more time.. ?

I don't believe that cheyenne can be **THAT** much faster so that 
it's so visibly obvous. Do you send the page in some specific way?

:-)

No AJAX calls, nor other tricks. It's very fast for several reasons 
:
- almost no images.

- no JS lib to load and no JS code to execute when page is loaded.
- server is far from being overloaded.

- MySQL backend is very fast for read accesses (MySQL has a very 
efficient caching system for queries).

- Cheyenne RSP engine *is* fast (RSP scripts are compiled to REBOL 
code and generated code is cached in memory)

The result is so fast that it looks like a RIA application, you hardly 
notice the redraw delay.

yes, I was intentionally looking but I couldn't see it-.. I had to 
select the header to see if selection will disappear

hm.. maybe it's the combination of vary fast app server with everything 
in ram and caching and also unbloated web development which rebol 
programmers maybe practice more than the regular webdevs

yes, with curecode I also had to account the fact that it's querying 
the database and it's still so fast.. anyway .. it's very good feeling 
to have responsive webapps

I agree that the application design counts also, being bloat-free 
helps a lot.

my cebelca,biz app is also quite big and "fancy" and uses only 1 
14x14 image file (icon for filters) :) ..

curecode is also visually full while very clear and clean

but it's not only that, I made apps like this in php and python before 
but they still loaded normally .. the fast loading in my cheyenne 
apps vas also noticed by others with comments "how come it's loading 
THAT fast" ? .. I just said "wasn't me :)"

I wonder how far this kind of approach can be used instead of JS-based 
RIA.

well JS still gives you interactiviry on the client level which would 
be hard to fully duplicate with the server (overlays, popin div-s 
...)

I must admit that, a few years ago, I was the first surprized when 
I put only my first RSP scripts, even more when I added db queries...

only=>online

cebelca.bit iz 90% rendered by the javascript on the client side 
..

but with or without that fast server  is much much better than slow

Right, a lot of UI effects are easier to implement in JS rather than 
generated server-side.

I will send you one DM :)

hehe, thanks :-)

Is there anything stopping a R3 uniserve and cheyenne?

yes, the lack of non-finished tasking model

I think that Doc is not willing to port it to r3, unless threading 
can be used ...

Did R3 reached beta?

nope

Ok nice, so I don't have to list all the other requirements. ;-)

MySQL has a very efficient caching system for queries

are you using mysql query cache?

i was wondering the other day about memcache and Cheyenne

I was thinking more of functional limitations ...

That's the "other requirements" part...

Doc - so if we place BETA sticker on current R3 alpha, will you port 
Cheyenne to it, even if threading will be missing? :-)

are you using mysql query cache?
 It's transparent for the user, MySQL is caching by default.

yeah, but you need to set it up in my.ini, right?

Pekr: it's more than just a word ;-)

Terry: I've never setup anything wrt caching in MySQL.

The only thing I touch in %my.cnf is skip-networking (when uncommented) 
and skip-innodb (when commented).

So, the question is, what are the functional limitations in r3alpha 
that is preventing a port ?

Probably the most impacting one is missing /Library.

Also, I'm not sure if CALL is usable in R3.

Hash! traversing is missing in R3 IIRC, I have to rewrite some code 
for the new map!. (I still don't get why hash! was removed, why can't 
we have hash! and map!?).

there are some funny things with call ... try calling a command shell 
inside the rebol console

Isn't that host kit stuff though?

Probably (I don't have host kit).

well, BrianH would say, download the hostkit and get yourself a curecode 
account!

I would answer, that spending my time reimplementing things like 
/Library, CALL or hash! in R3 using host kit (and giving my rights 
on it away), while code for such features already exists in R2, would 
be extremely stupid from me.

I don't think he can really take anyone's rights from them despite 
the licensing ...

<rant>To be completly honest, I didn't decided yet if I'm ready to 
spend another decade with a new closed source Core as my main programming 
tool. With R2, we had no evolution and no bug fixing during years, 
undocumented features, no info on how GC works, etc...Same causes 
and context producing same consequences, I'm not very optimistic 
for R3. While keeping thinking about it, I've started learning Scala.</rant>

That said, I'll probably use R2 as long as it is working on new platforms 
versions for the existing apps. R2 will always be a very valuable 
tool for prototyping and daily scripting tasks. But I'm now considering 
other choices for my future projects (especially for business projects).

Maarten has moved to Scala