World: r3wp

Carl, listen to the chorus: Release some source, even if it is a 
limited release to the interested-and-qualified-helpers. You need 
help :(

I second BrianH's opinion - please release to the first limited group 
of Devs, to prevent possible initial chaos. As for me - I think that 
we CAN manage the situation, even if you would release it publicly. 
Not many ppl use R3 Chat do download sources nowadays. I think that 
if you set some coordinator or two, e.g. BrianH, Henrik, Maxim  - 
whoever who will accept the role, then we will be fine and even other 
ppl can study the code and try some things for themselves ...

Yes... I agree... it is my fault!

wow... carl and I here at the SAME time  ;-)

Hello Maxim. Wow.

every other time you've been here, I was off line for a one or two 
hour period... and everytime you're not here, I'm there during those 
hours... hehehe

BTW... I was looking at your timings... puzzled by FOR times, I ran 
it in A94:
>> dt [loop 800 [for i 1 1000 1 []]]
== 0:00:00.015

is it still a mezz in R3?

Pekr, so R3 Chat is difficult to get source code? You can't be serious.
>> 26
.../Mezzaines
>> get *
--- Note: wrote file: work/r3/mezzanines/mezz-banner.r
--- Note: wrote file: work/r3/mezzanines/mezz-control.r
--- Note: wrote file: work/r3/mezzanines/mezz-debug.r
...

Maxim: native.

ah... that's why  :-)

Anyhow... the blame for the Host is not on Cypre or anyone other 
than me.

BTW, I *always* tell new users... "do not use FOR" unless absolutely 
necessary.

you could just setup a simple svn for it... its really simple to 
setup, and we can all easily participate and share our stuff, even 
if working on the same files.

simple and svn cannot be used in the same sentence, if I recall correctly.

But the reason I use DevBase (R3 Chat) is because it has accept/deny 
recordkeeping.

cvs is hell, but svn is really simple, at least on windows it is.

for example, with tortoise, its integrated directly inside the file 
explorer  :-)

Well, anyway, that's not the blocking factor.

Yes, I have tortoise, but I don't use it much... because it's not 
that practical for work flow.

So, Maxim, what's your main Dev system, is it Win32?

So, here's a rough game plan...

yep.  I also have a mac-mini now, so can also do some test on that.

but my mac is  not setup for C coding ... (yet)

I use visual C++ studio express.  (free and simple)

Ah, ok... I build on the Mac-Mini here as well... because it by far 
shows me more coding errors than anything else... yep, the big endian 
smacks hard.

hehe

What size is that? C++ S.E.

had dun with unicode   I guess  ;-)

So, the plan is to try go get the build mechanism setup again for 
the host development method.

Then, I'll probably just drop you a zip of everything for you to 
try it and tell me what problems pop up.

A few days of smoothing it out... and we should be good to go.  But 
note...

installed... 226MB  (seems to include a few extra tools like C# and 
VB

I want to migrate the graphics dialects (parsed via DELECT) into 
COMMANDS (yes, like in extensions).

do we have some access to R3 funcs into Extensions?

(from extentions)

That's a big topic. One we should move elsewhere, because it's likely 
to be many pages long.

Anyway, I'll put together a more detailed plan and get it to you. 
 I want this to go quickly, but not waste any of our time.

be sure that the moment I get some form of host code or plan I'll 
react to it ASAP.  This is the main "holding back" of R3 right now 
IMHO.

Got to go... but I'll work on a core-only host package for tonight. 
That's a good way to sync up, because the whole thing is simpler 
to make and link.

Carl - have I said anything about difficulcy of getting source via 
R3 Chat? What I told is - we should not worry about much of the input, 
because even nowadays, not many ppl is using R3 Chat alone, not to 
mention getting sources via R3 Chat.

just a note - COMMAND. I was thinking lately, if the word is not 
too good to be used for extensions? Commands fit dialects. I thought 
that we could use ROUTINE in Extensions. But I know that it might 
be late for the change, or that I have maybe shifted understanding 
of what "command" word actually means ...

Pekr, command! functions will be used in dialects too. That is why 
the name was chosen.

Just giving a little report about a very interesting chat I had with 
Carl:


- Host code package is in the works... given priority.  My impression 
is that Carl is really wanting for this to happen.  If any of you 
feel you can actually participate and do real tests and work, now 
is the time to raise your voice.
 

- Devices and the Extensions dll code are part of the host code. 
  Thus, by extrapolation...  We (i.e. Not Carl) could work on a model 
of Device extensions and propose it to Carl, if anyone (or group) 
wants to put the effort.  obviously using the current Extensions 
as the reference...


- As it stands now, adding Native Datatypes is complex outside of 
the rebol core  (ex: in host code) because of a few issues (GC integration 
being a major one).


- Carl isn't against the idea of finding a way to add Native (binary) 
user datatype but it most probably will have to wait a bit until 
Carl and Host developers find a way to make it simple and bug free. 
 a possible idea is to bave a special extension model which acts 
as a datatype marshaller, with defined commands as datatype actions 
(aka accessors in other languages).


- Talked a little bit about threads, but nothing really specific 
to say about it... I'll need to try it in practice so I can ask relevant 
questions.

I don't like point 2) - I think that Carl knows best, how to add 
integration of Devices, eventual callbacks, images, etc. - simply 
the requested stuff. We (the community) should use extensions, we 
should not try to develop its API.

It is a language author call imo ...

Carl will say no if he doesn't like it.  


but do you really think that people which are going to be actively 
helping out in adding this type of code to the host to stray far 
from any ideals Carl may have?

the case is to have a core group of people improving the host in 
parralel.

yes, I understand ... for later, maybe. But as for initial release, 
I would prefer Carl to implement (in regards to extensions) what's 
on a priority list. Believe me - if you shoul Carl, that maybe one 
day we have some ideas here or there, we will not get it for 3.0, 
as Carl will move onto other things.

shoul = show