World: r3wp

Steeve: a busy loop means that the CPU is busy looping. That is what 
happens in your example. There is no "sleep" time between time events. 
That is not true with actual time events, which fire at a defined 
interval, and allow the CPU to sleep between them.

replacing a wait with a counter... oh well... :)

Steeve - your script reports some error here:


>> do http://sites.google.com/site/rebolish/test-1/draw-shapes-22.r
Script: "Untitled" Version: none Date: none
** Script error: Moved has no value
** Where: catch either either applier do
** Near: catch/quit either var [[do/next data var]] [data]

Gabriele, you can't be more wrong. There is obviously sleep times 
in my example.

I reported that the CPU usage is variyng a lot depending what time 
events are triggering. There's no need to argue again facts. Obviously, 
less CPU usage means the CPU is sleeping somewhere.

Henrik, same argument, It's not a busy loop. Have you Guys tested 
or not ?

Sorry, Cyphre, not Henrik

Pekr, you can't use Rebol to "do " the script at this remote location 
 , you must download it at first.
(no redirection supported by http in R3)

Steeve, ah, I see, you are basically processing your fake time events 
whenever other events happen (eg. mouse moves). But if that's the 
case, then there is absolutely no point in using those fake time 
events. Also, there is no guarantee you are going to get events...

It is still a very silly way to do what Cyphre is doing, more consistently, 
by just using a FOREVER loop with WAIT.

Dropping by. Looking back.

It looks like this discussion evolved a lot.  Let me know if there 
is a question I can answer about it.

And, it's possible there's a bug. See last line of:
>> dt [loop 10 [wait 0.1]]
== 0:00:01.000138
>> dt [loop 100 [wait 0.01]]
== 0:00:01.000423
>> dt [loop 1000 [wait 0.001]]
== 0:00:01.003355
>> dt [loop 10000 [wait 0.0001]]
== 0:00:00.01414  <-- wrong

not yet reported to curecode.

This might be related to the timing resolution change we made a few 
versions ago.

my output is different (VirtualBox WinXP):

>> dt [loop 10 [wait 0.1]]
== 0:00:01.00047

>> dt [loop 10 [wait 0.01]]
== 0:00:00.100501

>> dt [loop 10 [wait 0.001]]
== 0:00:00.010723

>> dt [loop 10 [wait 0.0001]]
== 0:00:00.000234

argh, forgot to loop more than 10 times. forget it.

It still goes wrong in that last case.

Anyway... on above CPU issue... the metric is this: R3 should be 
as good or better than R2 in this.

In other words, there's no reason it should't be.  Also, we know 
the code has a few problems on non-windows boxes.

BTW, the relevant code is host-device.c, line 406 and below.

*/	REBINT OS_Wait(REBCNT millisec, REBCNT res)
/*
**		Check if devices need attention, and if not, then wait.
**		The wait can be interrupted by a GUI event, otherwise
**		the timeout will wake it.

Specifically:
	// Nothing, so wait for period of time
	delta = (REBCNT)OS_Delta_Time(base, 0)/1000 + res;
	if (delta >= millisec) return 0;
	millisec -= delta;  // account for time lost above
	req.length = millisec;

Robert and I are discussing field persistence, i.e. tieing fields 
directly to database tables in a layout. Going to be a bit about 
our conclusions in the R3 GUI specs soon.

The question is: How to get from GUI to a DB and back without cluttering 
the VID code, or having to code to much. The idea is to collect the 
GUI elements belonging to one record and than auto-create tables 
and columns. So, people can concentrate on the app code and get the 
75% always necessary database code for free.

If you have any ideas, hints let us know.


We have a first prototype running, but we want to make it more elegant.

Well, if you show us something it will be easier to propose ideas.
I'm working on my own GUI aswell currently :)

My main idea (Already tried in the past ) is to build enough small 
primitives to allow to constuct all the standard styles without the 
need to add bloated hand written code.

The primitives are context sensitives, meaning that blocks of primitives 
can be shared between several face without the need to bind/copy 
them for each face.

The way that accessors on panels work in R2 is a good start (almost):

	>> lay: layout [pan: panel [foo: field "Foo" bar: field "Bar"]]
	>> set-face pan ["Bar" "Foo"]
	>> get-face foo
	== "Bar"
	>> get-face pan
	== [foo: "Foobar" bar: "Barfoo"]

Tie that to validation, eg:

	import get-face pan [foo: string! [some char] bar: opt string!]

Or an active record:

	record/update get-face pan

Not perfect as is, and perhaps simplistic, but I could imagine finding 
a way to add more semantic hooks to a layout and have a somewhat 
automated way to set/retrieve data from parts or all of the gui...

Especially recognising that the layout structure may not represent 
the application data structures.  I've toyed with the idea of a 'ref 
keyword - ui: layout [field ref 'user/name] - ui/get 'user/name, 
ui/set 'user/name, ui/get 'user == [name ...]

i think the syntax of the data block to get/set the GUI and get/set 
the DB should be the same.
>>get-face pan
== [foo: "foo" bar: "bar"]
>>set-face pan [foo: "bar" bar: "foo" ]

>> get-db [foo: "bar" bar: "foo"]

== [foo: "bar" bar: "babar"]   ;the DB can decipher the data block 
and knows well what is the requested key and what is only attribute.

>>set-db [foo: "foofoo" bar: "..."] ; update the record or create 
a new one.


Having exactling the same syntax allow to pass data between the GUI 
and the DB without pain.

specs:

http://rebol.net/wiki/R3_GUI_Specs#Field_Persistence

Steeve: any reason why set-words over words?

Hmm... Ok

Henik, I'm not sure of the interest to add record specifications 
on each field. a simple record tied with the panel should be enough.

E.g with your example:

 name-panel: group 2 [
   label "ID"   id: field 
   label "Name"   name: field
   label "Address" address: field 
   label "Post Code"  postcode: field 
   label "Comment" comment: area 

 ] record name-table [name: key Address:  postocode: comment: data]

Chris, what do you mean ?

In your examples you use set-words...

Ah, ok.

It's because it's easy to convert them into objects. Don't know if 
it would be usefull or not.

Henrik: Do you also tie validation and multiple data sources to each 
binding?  I kind of like the independence of a data model co-existing 
with a layout structure, you can poke and prod data from outside 
while the view internals just get on with what they do...

Steeve, the purpose is allowing different scoping per field. According 
to Robert, he sometimes needs to use a field from a different table. 
Of course it would have to be possible to cover what you need with 
the outmost panel and then having fields inside it be covered by 
what the parent record specification gives.

Chris, in principle, each field could be tied to separate data sources.

group 1 [
	value1: field record [table1] ; would use value 1 in table 1
	value2: field record [table2] ; would use value 2 in table 2
	value3: field ; would use value 3 in table 3
] record [table3]

Henrik i see, but there should be the less possible specifications 
of the DB inside the styles themself.


Each panel should only (see) a flat VIEW of its tied tables (more 
easy to manage). 

Then each VIEW (like in SQL) could have a shema specification (somewhere 
else in the code) which desrcibes all the referential constraints 
between tables of the DB.

Just an idea.

A bare-bones version would be something like:

group 1 [
	value1: field
	value2: field
	value3: field
] record [table1]


which could serve most needs. Wouldn't that be the same as tying 
fields directly to a flat table?

Chris, the storage would require a "save to table" action. It wouldn't 
save as soon as you tab out of the field, so validation is fully 
possible.

On WAIT:

  loop 1000000 [wait 0.01]

Should not consume 100% should it? It does here, on Windows.

Something more to consider...

dynamic: group 1 [field field field] record [table1]


For when you want to set up fields where you know the order, and 
really want to minimize the layout code.


The outer panel would be set up with an ON-EMIT actor that traverses 
the inner faces. We already have this in the prototype, so maybe 
we can map the traverse order to the table columns.

It may not be a great idea. There are some possiblitiies for screwing 
the emit process up.

Do you Guys use REDUCE/ONLY ?

Gregg, time to curecode it, I suppose. I get the same here.

About the earlier mention of GET-FACE and SET-FACE, these are considered 
basic accessors to manipulate the fields and gather data from them. 
These aren't going away. The use of ON-EMIT specifies directly to 
use GET-FACE to obtain data from the face, so it's not some kind 
of "special accessor" that somehow replaces GET-FACE. The job of 
ON-EMIT is to copy the data, formally obtained from the field to 
the database record cell.