World: r3wp

but there is 2 things differents ... you have the dialect draw wich 
gives access to the insertion of  drawn shapes into a VID face and 
AGG is the engine can then beanything
....

can opengl be  used the same extends as AGG hum ... opengl have a 
heavy mechanics and that's not suited in my opinion for 2D fast over 
face rendering

the thing is draw and so agg can be used on any widget  componing 
VID and that's a hugde constraint

what really sux with opengl are those  half assed IHM interface i 
know glut, x and w32 extension that allows the opengl rendering engine 
to recive user

events and then display  on screen in the particular area set for 
it.


Those interfaces are not 1% as fun as VID... Vid is total flexibility. 
we never did that in vid be you can imagine heavy animation using 
draw dialect on any kind

of preset styled face. I think carl tryed to show that with the animated 
sliding widget when you open a window in his R3 GUI demo.

for me doing 2D using opengl always apeared to me as using a nuclear 
bomb to kill a single poor tiny cute ant ...(ok ant isn't cute...)

that doesn't means it doesn"t have it's grace.

things like transparency could be handled a way faster using opengl

ofcourse the software speudo antialiasing  u can find in AGG is just 
 a joke compared to  X16 antialiasing buffers that can be found on 
now in dayx accelarting video cards.

comparing AGG antialising and opengl antialiasing is like comparing 
the sun and the moon ...

the moon shines but it's only due to the refraction of the light 
comming from the sun that's prety much what the normalisation algorithms 
using in AGG does and they completly sux with tiny chars fonts... 
making them so blur or fuzzy as you like that you can't read them 
...

but in agg you don't have  a proper way to handle fonts who wants 
to have flat texels to represent is document or hundreds of  png 
files in memory ... and that where glut and other extensions try 
to give solutions but the réalisaton is in général ugly.

but in opengl  you don't have  a proper way to handle fonts who wants 
to have flat texels to represent is document or hundreds of  png 
files in memory ... and that where glut and other extensions try 
to give solutions but the réalisaton is in général ugly.

And Cairo?

one thing wich is really needed is the ability to have transparent 
windows no border no title no background ... a lot of things fun 
could be done once having that

graham in general when it starts with cairon or anothing context 
... that's a bad sign  i mean rebol doesnt formally mention that 
...

the draw context in a face is always there ... it's embeded in it 
no need to say HEY YOU KNOW WHAT  NOW WE WILL DO A SQUARE IN THIS 
WINDOWS AND PUT SOME CONTENT in it using some engine

that's a cool concept to séparated things and make a dedicated widget 
that handle this rendering style and wich is mixed with common other 
widgets

You're confusing me ...

that's what QT GTK+ WXWindows does

so things like super posing the regular widget properties of a VID 
face and some specific draw of  another specific rendering engine

but i can be wrong the cairo context is maybe just a transparent 
back grounded abstracted widget you can clip to any face

I'm less concerned about coolness then an appropriate license and 
functionality of an up to date graphics library

on a fonctionnality ground cairo have good point

it embed an SVG engine ( even if i'm sure a rebol / agg one blast 
it ) support of freefonts  support of png (but only this image format 
where rebol works with jpg etc...)

but you have an image surface ... wher you can clip any rvb content 
... even opengl buffer ?

i mean you can trop opengl rendering in a file why not traping it 
to a image buffer and then display it

the idea of rendering postscript or PDF is very appealing to me

i think cairo can be fun  but then the question is always the same 
will the dialect build to interface it with rebol will cover the 
whole thing or just cover the ground capabilities

i like the path thing in cairo ...

the difference is that we now have the host kit so it can be extended

that make me think are bezier curves like thing  you set a curve 
shape and you can draw anything to shape it

using the  cairo path layer you can imagine multi layer drawing  
something like photoshop's "calques" (sorry it's french lets say 
masks)

but why doing multi layer well to determine an order of was is  on 
top of what when rendering

having multi layers means you can then  multi thread the rendering 
1 layer per thread  this will enhance the complexity of what we can 
display on screen  (think about rendering a webpage or a pdf document 
for example)

When are we getting multithreading??

never and even more after  probably

carl said multi thread multi pipe multi core sux for a scripted language 
async process is better

well in fact we had this discution like 10 years before multi core 
have become the majority of the now in days personal computers

async is not going to help get better rendering of multiple layers 
concurrently

well the fact is cpu are multi threaded multi cored and so are the 
graphic cards when you render a document  with AGG only that the 
freaking CPU that does the whole rendering work for God's sakes, 
it's like the computing on the 90's ... ok it's passed it's done 
it's deprecated and over now we have 650MHz GPU multi rendering pipelined 
and  multi threaded multi cored CPU over 2GHZ per core that's a lot 
of power and why would rebol be the only one not exploiting that 
... And in the near futur (5 years to come) the GPU and CPU will 
be merged in a single chip high performance.

Just run a new instance of rebol for each core :)

....  becarefull there's a wolf in my name and those jokes it really 
don't make fun of them :)

That's what Cheyenne does .. multiple helper processes

yeah but i'm  poor brained ...  i like easy to understand concepts 
when it's too much  bricolage like that's make me run

bricolage another french word ... well who cares...

So, if you created a rendering surface or whatever in Cairo, can 
you then ask another Rebol process to access it?

the real true ask is rebol is slow to evolve so does cairo will evolve 
betwin 2 rebol release or does it will go to abandonedwar after 2 
years  ?

graham i fear the context concept is like the flash plugin in your 
page ... you see what i mean

so the memory is protected from access by other processes?

you have a specific area where you have your flash rendering embeded 
more or less into a  visual content rendered using a completly different 
engine and drawing method

end  betwing those 2 engines no coabitation the flash space is for 
flash only