World: r3wp

now tab navigating... only you can't see it yet and there are some 
screwups with the built in "tab navigation" in fields.

navigating using the tab key, or navigating a tab panel?

except we don't have tab panels yet :(

should be simple to do. we worked out how yesterday.

how's resizing now that you have tags?

something we'll look at later. there's a logical sequence of things 
that we need to get working before we get to resizing.

Carl, good to see you back in the GUI fray :)

Nice to see the events evolving...
The community needs a GUI system and creates a team

Reichart wars Carl that something is moving on on this front and 
needs his attention

Carl pop up in the group and catches the wave hoping the GUI sysytem 
does not take the wrong direction (I suppose).
Everyone is happy about this ! :-)

(wars=warns)

Big note now that says docs are inaccurate http://www.rebol.net/wiki/The_Graphical_User_Interface

Good. Kr Bacon really messed things up, and this is a source of much 
of the confusion about R3's GUI.

probably very preliminary, but could this be kind of the design we 
are heading for? Looks clean, simple, yet nice enough. IIRC Cyphre 
used similar theming (blueish) for his styles-pack:


http://www.zive.cz/ShowArticleImages.aspx?id_file=423472159&article=141664

Presumably there are some fundamentals that have to be solved before 
the esthetics can be dealt with

Graham, correct.

Any progress?

I'm busy with something else right now. Hope to continue tomorrow. 
Carl is working on docs.

good to hear Carl is documenting his ideas for the GUI. Is Cyphre 
already doing some low-level work? :-) Is there actually any priority 
for low level work? E.g. unicode display, better cross-platform font 
handling, draw improvements, transparent top windows, etc.?

Cyphre is down with the flu right now and a sporadic internet connection 
due to snow, so I have no immediate status of what he's doing, other 
than waiting for the host kit, but what he's shown me, based on a 
separate AGG build, shows that there are a lot of ideas for what 
to do.

some two or more weeks ago he told me he is working on some demo, 
showing some AGG capabilities. That is probably stuff you saw? Will 
it be demoed? :-) Or is it just internal build to have some ground 
for further architecture improvement talks?

He was testing the bottleneck for parsing and drawing DRAW blocks 
as quickly as possible, and he calculated that the bottleneck for 
PARSE was much lower than that for AGG's draw routines, so it didn't 
make much sense to have to avoid PARSE according to his measurements. 
It might still become possible anyway to bypass PARSE, but I'm not 
sure.

The separate AGG build is just there until he can get a hold of the 
host kit and to test ideas.

So getting View under the wraps of the command! Extension interface 
is absolutly essential in order to proceed ....

on a low level yes. on VID level, there's more than enough to do.

Henrik - will you restart your "teaser" screenshot web, as you proceed? 
:-)

yes, I can put one up now

Done... not very exciting to look at. :-)

ah, the first one :-)

So you started styling from scratch? Looks a bit different to your 
initial work, no?

no, just 5 minutes of work to get rid of Carl's fancy colors, while 
we do various GUI testing.

that was a prototype color scheme wasn't it?

Whats the URL to the screenshots?

yes, prototype color scheme. nothing serious.

http://rebol.hmkdesign.dk/files/r3/gui/

Reactors - page moved
This page is being moved to the new R3 document wiki.

Where is the new wiki?

graham: http://www.rebol.com/r3/docs/, i guess

I guess we need some more public tasks, to keep moving. We're contemplating 
messaging between faces and I've written something up in the specs 
document, although I think it's a bit too complex. How does one face 
communicate with another in a simple way? The trick is to both keep 
it simple inside the style design and layout specification. Ideas?

http://rebol.net/wiki/R3_GUI_Specs#Face_attachment

Henrik, a question: currently I see a trend to adopt animated background, 
animated gui elements, animated transitions and sometime 3D ebjects/effects 
in the interfaces. Do you think they could be possible in the next 
R3 GUI ?

they are partially possible as you can see in the built in demo in 
R3, but I haven't studied them closely. I don't think we can do this 
in the beginning, but I think it should be possible to do something 
similar to Core Animation in MacOSX, where shapes, colors and transparency 
can automatically transition between two states. I wrote up some 
quite detailed specs on this a few years ago.

Henrik - have you received any docs on GUI from Carl yet?

nope

Hmm, my question was related to your "face communication" question. 
IIRC, there was nothing like that in prior R3 GUIs .... I wonder 
what do we need it for? I went thru your docs, and they look kind 
of complicated, but maybe those are just detailed and the stuff is 
really needed, so I don't want to judge it preliminarly ...

there was actually something in Gabriele's GUI, but it was very complicated 
to work with.

it's needed to provide automatic messaging between faces, so you 
can for example co-relate the data output of a face (scroller) with 
the y-offset of a panel. This is not very well formalized right now.

I stand corrected, the 'attach keyword is there. Actors/reactors 
are a good idea.

on-attach, on-detach seems the way to go. But maybe I just don't 
understand, what do you miss with the current design?

there's not much missing. I'm just asking if anyone knows a way to 
simplifiy it.

Thanks henrik, it is obvius those are not meant to be included in 
the first instance. However I keep in mind the multi-year target: 
have a modern GUI suitable for all computing platforms.

In demo I can currently see, that you can attach e.g. slider to progress 
bar. It is done in a VID dialect level (reactor?). Then setting the 
slider value will cause on-attach event to be executed?

The way it's done now, it's treated as a bit of a special case: when 
a scroller occurs, it will try to attach itself onto a face that 
has a specific actor, on-scroll (I think it is). I don't like this 
method as it only reveals itself through the style code as a special 
case. There can be hundreds of other ways to attach styles to eachother, 
so there needs to be a generic way to do it.