World: r3wp

I don't think the A108 R3 installs yet.

I use .r3 for REBOL3 scripts and .r for R2.

Let's hope we get an A108 hostkit at all ...

I think, that the majority of REBOL scripts are .r and they work 
in both R2 as well as in R3

If someone close to Carl could ask him to release A108 as both binary 
and hostkit, that would be much appreciated.

That is the plan, Andreas.

But we are doing a core release first, to let people hammer on it 
to make sure the system changes work. Then we will likely release 
a host kit, or one for the a109 release.

(drumroll...)

OK, so it's not the plan, just a binary release.

...first. Your concerns (and those of others) have been noted and 
passed along. But the plan will be set based on the stability of 
the core release.

What good reason is there for not doing hostkit releases side-by-side 
with the binary releases?

When the release focusses on host kit changes, that makes sense. 
This release completely revamps the R3 internal structure. It might 
not work at all, let alone work in a host kit.

Which is a pity.

Namely, that Carl still seems to use tons of different codebases 
for the different releases.

Why is it a pity that we would want to isolate testing to that which 
changed?

For experimental releases especially.

If nothing changed in the hostkit, then an updated hostkit release 
is mostly a matter of bundling updated r3 core libs.

So the isolation argument is moot.

On the contrary, there are bugs in CC which seem to only occur with 
binaries built from the hostkit. So you have a wider base of testing.

Updated R3 core libs which *may not work*. Once we are sure that 
the core works, we can adapt the hostkit to match. For that matter, 
we made changes that might break existing extensions (I think they 
won't).

If the RT binaries were built from the same sources, that would not 
be possible.

They are.

Then the scenario you describe is not possible.

Either the hostkit is already adapted for the RT built to work.

Or it is not, and RT builts from separate sources.

builds*

The R3 core libs might not work, because A108 core might not work.

Most of the host kit problems that end users find and Rt doesn't 
are compiler or platform related, not due to source differences.

Then your testing point is moot.

Just release pre-built binaries along with the hostkit, and let users 
test however they wish.

We are testing the core first. The host kit later. Who knows, later 
might be tomorrow.

Or in 5 months.

My point is, there's no difference. With a hostkit release where 
nothing changed, you still only test the core.

Nothing changed except everything that is REBOL-related, and the 
module system that extensions are built on.

For that matter, A108 is so experimental that security will likely 
be turned off.

Which is why we know that it won't be 5 months, because A109 will 
be focusing on security issues.

Time will tell.

I will remind you of that when you explain to hostkit developers 
that A109 will be a binary-only release for whatever reason is en 
vogue then.

You keep saying "binary-only". You keep leaving off the "at first" 
part. That part matters.

No, it's the timing of the "at first" we are discussing.

In the meanwhile, A108 will likely be a break-your-code release, 
so watch out.

Won't be able to test it much, without a hostkit.

You will be able to test the A108 changes quite easily without a 
host kit. Extensions can still be loaded externally, and the rest 
is core.

_I_ won't. People in general might well be able to do so.

Good, then you can enjoy the benefit of their testing when the host 
kit release comes out. Less hassle for you.

Fewer testers for you.

A host kit release has more code than a core release. Why would we 
delay a core release until the non-core host kit code is adapted? 
We don't have to wait to release everything at once, when we can 
get the core release out early to testers. This is especially important 
for releases that focus on core changes.

If the binary-only releases where built from the same codebase, the 
code _would_ already be adapted.

And this is the biggest core change in the last year. It needs extra 
testing.

The host kit uses the same code base, but it uses extra code that 
core doesn't. Code that we haven't adapted yet.