World: r3wp

But you know, I woud prefer a DSL like emiter, something using parse's 
rules exclusively

I needed to prototype a direct native emitter for the upcoming JIT-compiler. 
So compilation speed was a critical.

thanks, I was just wondering if the compiler was structured in a 
way to make it possible.


as for when/how that's obviously not a priority if you're already 
able to spit out code for the various platforms easily.

was a critical
 => was critical

Parse is fast

But I guess, you intend to recompile the emitter with Red itself, 
as soon as possible.

Yes, that's the idea. It's currently in a boostrapping phase, temporary 
relying on REBOL.

bootstrapping

I'm not sure I get your "DSL like emiter"? Do you mean compiling 
to an intermediate dialect, that would be compiled to native code?

No, I mean writing each target emitters/assemblers (IA32.r) with 
a dialect.

In a way to ease porting

But it's true that it's a matter of taste.

Such dialect would be an IR (Intermediate Representation), I wanted 
to avoid that, for several reasons: simplicity, efficiency, performances. 
The porting effort is not so big with the current approach. Also, 
once I'll start working on the optimizing compiler version (next 
year), I would  use need an IR, and it would need to be a little 
higher level than that (emitter/ASM-like level).

If you set the compilation logs to 3 (-vvv) and take only the entries 
starting with ">>" you'll get a feeling of what such IR would be. 
In fact, just recording these steps instead of reducing them directly 
to native code, would almost give you a good IR to start making optimizations 
(other than the very trivial ones that I've included in IA32.r).

Doc, have you ever coded in AMIGA language E ?

I remember reading E docs, but not coding...maybe I just did a HelloWorld 
app.

Hey guys ! AltME is cool, but what about using Red lang Google Groups 
to spread the world all reflexion (?) ?

And maybe having new blood, new way of thinking, new point of view 
?
What do you think ?

there might be some ideas to rip out of that compiler.    my favorite 
low-level feature was that all types where natively the same size 
in ram and where all aligned to that size.     in E all datatypes 
where 32 bits in RAM


so for example, chars actually had 4 bytes which you could dump bytes 
into, making them ideal for many purposes which strings and numbers 
are commonly used instead.  you coud compare chars with LONGS as 
though they where both integers, etc.

IIRC it would compile 10000 lines of code /second on a 7MHz cpu.

or was it 100000 ?

Max: the current supported types in Red/System are all of same size. 
Makes a lot of things easier, but I will need 8 and 16-bit sizes 
very soon, so the simplicity of implementation will probably suffer 
a little from that.

yeah, I thought the news group was the intended method of communication

Well, I would prefer to answer deeper/longer questions on Google 
groups, but I guess people here are too used to realtime chatting 
here.

Moving Red discussions (at least the long topics) out of AltMe's 
darknet would help.

Or, you could write a script to post these to the google groups list 
too :)

Would need to make this group web-public first :-)

The gravitational pull won't release us :-)

No, you have the messages on your drive as we all do

the web public is just a convention

I have some AltME export code if that would help

I don't see how the chat-oriented content here would not look like 
a big mess if copied to a web forum :-).

Just a suggestion ... to cc to mailing list.
Not everyone on the mailing list is on altme

And it would ensure a single source for discussion

The REBOL list? That was dead when I looked a while ago

No, I mean the Red googlegroups mailing list!

Oh

red-ctx: [ mailinglist ]

Let's start with a simple announcement:

If you have some technical questions about Red, please use preferably 
the official channel at Google Groups: http://groups.google.com/group/red-lang?hl=en

Thanks.

+1 Doc
Good, I vote pros.

not a tech question about red .. but what is a code bubble?

I wrote a Syllable build recipe for Red:

http://syllable.cvs.sourceforge.net/viewvc/syllable/syllable/system/apps/utils/Builder/packages/Red--current/

Graham: http://www.cs.brown.edu/people/acb/codebubbles_site.htm

There's not very much you can do with Red on Syllable yet, and the 
integration is awkward, but it's a start

Ahh.. .this is similar to the stickynotes add in for Leo, the literate 
code editor I use

Code bubbles have almost nothing to do with literate programming. 
For one thing, you can't add inlime docs beyond the comments in the 
language syntax. This is more like a more graphical version of the 
Smalltalk browser.

Sorry, it does allow out-of-band notes and bug reports to appear 
in the same interface, just not literate mixed code and docs.

The original Java case benefits more from the concept than REBOL 
would because there are many addon standards like JavaDoc that need 
managing, but at least have been agreed upon by their community. 
We don't have that kind of agreement in the REBOL community. Also, 
the structure of the Java language is very limited, so it's a bit 
easier to parse it and have its structure just be in the background 
even though the language wasn't designed for that like Smalltalk 
was for its browser. For Red, since it's so early, things like integrated 
documentation can be developed along with the language, so something 
like this would make more sense. However, if Red is going to have 
even a large fraction of the power of REBOL then it won't be as structured 
as Java, making it a little more difficult to retrofit a Code Bubbles 
interface onto existing code. This is why you would need an IDE to 
understand code written in this kind of IDE: A Code Bubbles style 
interface doesn't generate code with story structure the way scripts 
are structured, so you can't just read the code without the context 
of the IDE.

I compiled the Hello World example on the graphical version of Syllable 
Server, and then ran it with WINE