World: r3wp

And I won't like World to become in a situation, where there are 
lots of bugs and no progress for years, and it's still close sourced. 
That won't happen.

I feel bad because we saw many projects failed because of the same 
reason.


Don't feel bad! A month ago, you didn't know about World. Now you 
do, and now you have an extra option. Where is no reason to feel 
bad.


Afaik projects like Boron are open source, and you may put it in 
the category of "failed projects". So open source doesn't equal success.

Boron is not

Have you thought of some "escrow" type arrangement to give people 
the confidence that World will not just disappear at some time in 
the future?


It doesn't have to be a full commercial arrangement but perhaps you 
could give a copy of the source to somebody that you trust with instructions 
on what circumstances it would be released (and how it should be 
released).

ok, my bad. I don't know enough about Boron.

And it's the very reason Boron  failed

Boron is fully open source - it is published on gitorious

It is published under the LGPL.

uh !?

:) I take my words "my bad" back.

https://gitorious.org/boron/boron

Peter, no, I haven't seen a reason for an "escrow" type arrangement 
yet. World has just been available for 3 weeks or so. And I feel, 
World isn't quite yet in a situation, where I would build larger 
projects with it. Close to version 1, maybe around going from alpha 
to beta release, it could be justified to make arrangements.

Ok  people, look at the red light :)
Flashhhhhhh !!!!

I bet, you play sorcerer, when you roleplay! :)

Pekr, sorry I don't comment on all you say. But look e.g. at a product 
like WebOS, which was mentioned here in this AltME world not long 
ago. It was developed to the current state as close source. Just 
recently HP announced it to go open source. I judge it to be an ok 
success for the people behind it, even if it was developed as close 
source. Open source doesn't equal success. And close source also 
doesn't equal success. But they may be related.

Geomol: "man-years of work open-sourced for free? And this in a situation, 
where I get nothing from doing so?"


You could get _a lot_ from doing so. Increased participation in general, 
with all the positive effects that can encompass. But whether you 
consider that worth the trade-offs necessary to reap those benefits 
is obviously your choice.

A lot of us would like Rebol and its derivatives to  be successful 
because success brings validation, and more importantly brings new 
people and development to Rebol.  We've all seen the closed source 
model fail, and specifically we have seen people leave Rebol or refuse 
to learn Rebol on this account.  Orca and Boron are not relevant 
because there was never a critical mass of people aware of it, and 
the GPL license put commercial developers here off.  Partial open 
source models like R3 would suggest that this model is also not attractive 
enough with a lack of investors to keep Carl working on the project. 
 Perhaps you do have some wonderful business plan that is going to 
work against all odds but the majority of us are not so optimistic. 
  We don't wish to see history keep repeating itself and so we are 
advising you to change your plan.   Think King Canute!

PLEASE STOP CALLING BORON GPL, OR EVEN CLOSED SOURCE!!!

- Shakes head at all the foolishness spouted here -

If you add functionality to Boron, it becomes a derivative work and 
subject to GPL restrictions.  And stop shouting. lol

He means that Boron is LGPL, rather than GPL. You still get (an extended 
large subset of) the restrictions.

Yes, and the distinction warrants some shouting after half a decade 
of Boron and ORCA development

any idea what you're thinking of charging for it?

I haven't really thought of selling it, so I have no clue.

I have some free-lance work to do these days, but will continue work 
on World too.


The next thing for World is finishing the memory handling, so contexts 
are freed completely (problems with functions and blocks within contexts 
today). I'll check cyclic references too. After that, it's the rest 
of the datatypes, functions and better networking.

I just checked network.
You do not have an error handling for connect

Where and how do you handle a closed socket during receive (total 
== 0)

In src/host/network.c line 86 and src/host/win32/network.c line 84. 
I break out of the while loop, if recv returns zero in case of closed 
socket.

Yes, I saw that, but what do you do, if total is zero. What do you 
display or give back.
I just get an endless stream of "00000"  until crash

Under OS X, I get an empty binary, which is expected behaviour. Under 
WinXP, the process hangs here. The OS X and Linux version of World 
use standard BSD networking, the Windows version use MS networking, 
where an init is needed. You're welcome to suggest changes to the 
host specific sources. At this stage, I won't use a lot of time on 
Windows specific sources, as I don't use that platform very much.


I consider using cURL for networking, as that could give a lot of 
features fast. If I find, it adds too much to the overall size of 
World, it could be cut along the way by moving features from cURL 
to World sources.

In fact, it's libcurl, I consider, as cURL is a command line tool.

Geomol: is your freelance work using World-lang, just wondering if 
you find it good enough to do work in yet

No, mostly COBOL and some REBOL for now.

New release at: https://github.com/Geomol/World

- Added function to rebol.w: rebol (makes it easier to run REBOL 
scripts)
- Added option: --
- Fixed bug

Any news here? Wondering why the momentum is mostly gone für world.

maybe the licensing talk kind of lowered enthusiasm

Maybe Geomol has found his own cave ?

:))

Probably there comes free cave with every closed-source language.

The last release was only a couple weeks ago.

Gregg - "only a couple weeks ago"? That pretty much sucks. Geomol 
HAS TO relalise, that noone is really intereted in old school models, 
or he is on his own ....

Is that sarcasm Petr?

It is his free will to choose his license, as it is his free will 
to stay mostly unnoticed ...

Gregg - not a sarcasm, just my point of view ...

OK. How often do you expect new releases then, to keep people interested?

What Geomol offers, is already being ruined by Carl and RT ...

Gregg - it is not about new releases, it is about caring about the 
product at all. So - Geomol announced World. After two months, my 
reality check is - NOONE is really interested, period.

And the culprit - the licence - the old song .... RT's path ...

I admit that I haven't made time to dig into World, but there is 
already a *lot* there from what I have seen. Personally, I am very 
interested. I am also very interested in leveraging community efforts 
in support of all the REBOL-like languages that are available.