World: r3wp

Is that sarcasm Petr?

It is his free will to choose his license, as it is his free will 
to stay mostly unnoticed ...

Gregg - not a sarcasm, just my point of view ...

OK. How often do you expect new releases then, to keep people interested?

What Geomol offers, is already being ruined by Carl and RT ...

Gregg - it is not about new releases, it is about caring about the 
product at all. So - Geomol announced World. After two months, my 
reality check is - NOONE is really interested, period.

And the culprit - the licence - the old song .... RT's path ...

I admit that I haven't made time to dig into World, but there is 
already a *lot* there from what I have seen. Personally, I am very 
interested. I am also very interested in leveraging community efforts 
in support of all the REBOL-like languages that are available.

As well as R2 and R3, including Saphirion's work.

As for me - I do care about the Red - I already donate, and I will 
do so in next few weeks again. In opposition to you, I don't care 
in ANY closed efforts again. I don't care about RT anymore. Carl 
is an ufo :-) I can't accept  ANYONE, behaving like he is. Weren't 
we supposed to know the resolution of our situation? This is total 
crap - Saphirion my ass - Carl is just making joke of us all ...

As an IT manager, Carl would not survive one interview, period. His 
treat of REBOL related community, it totallly laughable. This it 
TOTAL failure, period. Anyone claiming - well -he has been away just 
for one year, is just an idiot ...

RT does not deserve any furter comment for me ...

Move to Vent to continue this.

No, no need for me ... you are too think skinne. The reality check 
is rather harsh though ...

Most users will not express it publicly. But many will agree - Carl 
has totally failed, easy as that ...

He said he had some real money making work to do

Mchean - WTF?

geomol

he had to do some work to pay the bills

I hope that he'll see the light about the licensing, he seems very 
reasonable

We were supposed to see an agreement between the Saphirion, and RT. 
And as expected - nothing happened. Perhaps, Carl is growing his 
wine :-)

or drinking it :)

Mchean - as for Geomol - I feel sorry for him - he is a victim of 
RT's treat of the community .... Geomol has clear view of how to 
put his project forward, but ppl don't seem to be interested - that's 
my impression at least ...

on the other hand I understand his concern about getting a return 
on his investment, and if world were

My impression (correct me if I'm wrong, Geomol) is that Geomol doesn't 
require our interest to get a return on his investment. He's already 
got a planned use for World in his own projects. Our interest and 
feedback is a bonus.

Pekr! Take a breath. When you're calm, then read your words here 
again. You're very off topic. Please move such rants to appropriate 
group. Please!

Then reality check:


This group was started 2 months ago. It's easy to go through it and 
look for my blue and yellow releases and notes. That's a lot of progress 
in 2 months. If you see it otherwise, then you're blind. The C sources 
of World has grown a lot in those two months, and it's quality work 
with few errors considering the amount.


You will most likely see the progress of World come in waves. I had 
worked intensely on it more than full time since before summer. Yes, 
more than full time (more than 8 hours a day, also week-ends), so 
that's a lot of man hours. The last month, I've done paid freelance 
work too. At the same time, for World I'm researching better networking 
(cURL), getting lib calls to work under Windows 64 using libffi and 
finishing the memory model, so circular references are coped with 
correctly. Why didn't I say so? Because I like to announce things, 
when it's done, instead of giving false hopes, but now I made an 
exception.


1) I'm not going to give my work away for free at this time. That's 
because I see no benefit in doing so.

2) World will not come in a situation like REBOL, with lots of errors 
for a long time and still closed source. If I wasn't able to continue 
work on World (to fix errors, make further progress or whatever), 
and if people relied on work already done, then I would open source 
it. As this isn't the current situation with World, this is no argument 
to open source it.


If you don't like my model, move on. Negative rants here are not 
productive.

sounds good to me.

First try on a World Map:
http://www.fys.ku.dk/~niclasen/world/World_Map.html

Made with FreeMind and exported as Flash.

That's cool! Then you can add explanations & examples to them, later.

And look at the "Note Window" under View menu, you can add notes 
to items. They will be exported to Flash / Javascript as Tooltips 
which is quite useful.

Oh and also try "Auto Layout" under Format menu, it makes it nice, 
but make a copy before use it.

Thanks!

very nice!

Excellent John.

Very cool.

Thanks, guys. Easy to do with the right tool, and FreeMind works 
well for me.

Geomol: Can you put icons to show which parts are completed, priorities 
and you work on?

The Map is the current picture of what's implemented, so it's not 
an image of all for version 1 of World. As I mention in the README 
on GitHub, date! and time! is only partly implemented, the rest is 
more or less completed for version 1.

I would like to improve the Map, so I'm working on that.

That's cool. Making a RoadMap diagram can be useful as well. So everyone 
can easily see what is next, what you are working on, what priorities 
are etc. of course if it helps you as well.
It is much more readable than a wiki.

Yes, much better overview with this type of tool.

New World Map at:

http://www.fys.ku.dk/~niclasen/world/World_Map.html


I freshed it up with some colors, which is also informative, added 
system, sys-utils and net-utils, added icons for parts with issues 
and added parts not implemented yet as grays.

Nice.

Nice map !

Looks great John.

Gregg wrote in group #Red: "World has similar goals I believe."


Yes. To clarify: There is World and there is World/Cortex. World 
is written in C and the Cortex extension is written in World. It's 
a design goal to have as little as possible in the C part, but because 
it's also a goal to have good performance, especially with math stuff, 
some functions are native (written in C), which could have been mezzanines 
(written in World), like ABS, COS, SIN, TAN (all small functions 
in C).


But large functions like PARSE and SORT and many other functions 
are part of the Cortex extension, so they're written in World and 
is therefore open source.


With the good support for dynamic loaded libraries, good performace 
with heavier functions can be achieved that way.


And then there is the REBOL extension (in the World file %rebol.w), 
which is there to hold further extensions and definitions needed 
to run REBOL scripts. Those are not in the Cortex extension, because 
I disagree with some of the REBOL design decisions, and because I 
would like the Cortex extension not to be too large.


For me, World and Cortex has the higher priority, the REBOL extension 
the lower priority, meaning I use more time on finishing World/Cortex 
for now.

Great info John. THanks.

Geomol - could you please explain, how wrapping libraries in World 
are done? Call me dumb, but I can't understand it from a website. 
OK, found more in PDF docs. I just wonder, if I always should use 
typecheck? Eg. I wanted following function to return 0 or 1. I tried 
with variou int types on the C side, and integer! datatype on the 
World side. I was receiving very large integer numbers as a result, 
untill I put [typecheck] in there. Maybe I just had incorrect argument 
type on the C side selected?

led: load/library %ledctrl.dll

led-is-power?: make routine! [
   [typecheck]
   led "LSN_IsPower" []
   uint integer!
]

World is 64 bit. If you don't specify typecheck, it assumes the return 
value to be a 64-bit integer, e.g. sint64 or uint64 in C and integer! 
in World. If the return value of the C library routine isn't a 64 
bit integer, you need to specify typecheck to get it converted from 
8, 16 or 32 bit to 64 bit. If the return value of the C library routine 
is 64 bit, typecheck isn't necessary, but can still be used, and 
it will slow the routine call a bit.

I say C, but the library can be made with any language, I guess. 
It's just, that the C types (actually typedefs) are used in the explanation.

Maybe typecheck should be default, even if it hits performance, when 
it isn't needed, and then some other word should be used to remove 
typechecking (and conversion)? Argh! I don't like to change that. 
:)