World: r4wp

Red FB group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/redlanguage/

My new public FB profil: https://www.facebook.com/redlanguage


Those that sent my friend requests recently to my private page, can 
now resend them to this new one.

That FB Red avatar is rather ... blue

Good point, I'll see how Doctor Manhattan renders in red shades. 
;-)

This is huge: http://www.pythontutor.com

We need to write Red documentation that way too!

Cool! (for FB group and pythontutor.com)

Really nice - I thought the examples were canned at first, and I 
was thinking how tedious it must've been to set these up, but I see 
that it's all generated on the fly.

I would've thought that trying to show so many things (program listing, 
output, data structures) in that amount of space would make it hard 
to follow - it's surprisingly clear, though.

Well my patience is being tested. No red-lang mailing list for me 
for a week or more. Account disabled. (Red-terrorist :) )

Ah, Unicode plan posted, should be announed here :-)

http://www.red-lang.org/2012/09/plan-for-unicode-support.html

Any particular plan for error handling?

Nothing in particular, I will implement it the same way as in REBOL. 
If you have suggestion about improvements, it's still time.

Error handling will come fast, probably next week, but in a basic 
version as we still don't have something like system/standard/*

Pekr: I guess that all people here interested in Red have subscribed 
to red-lang.org feed. ;-)

yes, but? :-) You posted about FB group above ... which is part of 
the Twitter feed too :-)

what I liked about R3 errors was addition of 'why function, which 
pointed you to the docs :-)

Pekr, yes, exactly one thing I'm missing about the current error 
system. Also currently user error strings are difficult to localize 
unless you use your own scheme, when displaying the error.

You can certainly carry this data in the arg1, arg2 and arg3 words, 
but it's a bit awkward.

About error, maybe some indication of the line number. Not prominent 
but as a hint at least, however using find most of the time finds 
the right place where the error is, sometimes it is not so clear.

Henrik: you're are passing REBOL errors to end users?

Line numbers: there are complicated and costly to handle in a REBOL-like 
language at runtime. The experimentation I did in Red/System confirms 
it. I'm not sure I will add them to Red unless we can come up with 
an efficient solution.

*they

Dockimbel, well, maybe it's bad design, but what I do generally is 
make error! in the deepest part of the code. When such a user error 
happens (which is generated by a plain make error! "something failed"), 
I disarm it and display arg1 in a dialog in the higher level code, 
if that makes sense. This way, errors are easy to identify and I 
don't have to make up schemes for return values. When a REBOL error 
happens at the same level, I let the program crash.

Arnold, in R3 there is a stack trace shown at the error message, 
which lets you find errors much quicker than in R2. Line numbers 
aren't really practical with REBOL.

Is there any "tedious" task (not involving manuals, docs or graphics) 
that could be done by some volunteer to speed up Red development 
?

question about compiler.r 
while		[intrinsic! [cond  [block!] body [block!]]]
until		[intrinsic! [body  [block!]]]
no condition needed for until?

(I know it is the value of the last line if it is a condition in 
rebol but shouldn't it be specified?)

Nope. There is only one argument, the body.

Those are just argument specs. They don't specify behavior eyond 
that.

Marco: besides coding in Red/System, I don't see what you could do 
currently to speed it up. Here are some ideas for the additional 
coding that will need to be done:


You can write in Red/System some of the non-trivial natives, like 
e.g. set natives: sort, union, intersect, unique, difference. Other 
natives or support code we will need are codecs for:

- compression supporting these algorithms: deflate, lzo

- cryptography: MD5, SHA-1, AES, ...(all the required ones for SSH 
and SSL support)


You can port C code to Red/System, there are tons of available C 
source code, you just have to make it right (crypto requires accurate 
coding, implementations need to be deeply tested for flaws).

Alternatively, you can try to find a good existing open-source SSH/SSL 
lib that is BSD-compatible, so far, I haven't found  any. All the 
robust open source ones that I could found are under GPL.

ok, just like in REBOL of course. Still it looks strange because 
I expect it to be there because there always is in other languages 
and it is a loop until a condition is met. So somewhere that condition 
must be tested to be true or false but indeed this part is more the 
definition of how the statement as a whole should be formatted in 
a Red program. I'm back on track, thanks!

cryptography: maybe I can handle ROT13. :-)

Marco, maybe you could do a syntax coloring scheme for one of the 
popular editors out there

I guess this would be more straighforward for Red/System as opposed 
to Red because of the more limited syntax. I would think a regex 
based approach would work for that

might be worth starting with a TextMate bundle for REBOL and simplifying 
that, for Red/System

I can live without the line numbers, even in a R2 like error handling 
:) A lot of programming errors are development related and should 
never happen again once correct datatypes are passed on between functions 
so after this is done no further need for extra debugging statements 
here. User input is always wrong, they give wrong data and should 
be punished hard for that (Oh no that's Googles point of view) but 
the point is it should be tested to be what it should be and in that 
 way REBOL errors should rarely be reported by users. (just my 2cents)

Red needs a "Red programming language Pocket Reference" (O'Reilly 
book) before the world dominance can set in.

OpenSSH is BSD http://www.openbsd.org/cgi-bin/cvsweb/src/usr.bin/ssh/LICENCE?rev=HEAD

Unfortunately, with the advertising clause

The underlying OpenSSL, that is

what are the restrictions if you read the code and port it to another 
language without running any of the original code with the exception 
of test suites?

Running makes no difference, but if you really port the code, you're 
entering a gray area in which I would guess the copyright could still 
apply to some extent

There would have to be a complete specification somewhere that could 
be used for implementation.

Not sure what you mean by advertising clause ... there are Amiga 
bsd ports http://linuxmafia.com/ssh/amiga.html

Henrik, yes, Graham's link says that all the information is available. 
But then you're looking at complete reimplementations of a whole 
software suit that's extremely security critical

Advertising clause doesn't prevent porting. It just obligates you 
to advertise the author

One could always ask the original implementors.

Their stance is clear. The whole world has already complained, so 
this is what you get

Steve has already done the Amiga port

Does it matter if their names appear in the source header?