World: r4wp

Maybe a Trie would be the best data structure for symbols (I have 
used them in other projects for fast short strings lookups).

One gotcha we ran into with R3: R3 uses aliases to handle case-insensitive 
word equality. We found that aliases were a good, safe use for that, 
but not safe or stable to use for anything else. Perhaps you might 
consider this for Red.

Maybe, I haven't decided yet how I will handle that.

I can think of using to-head and to-tail. My opinion is you should 
have a more descriptive name for your variable. So length-of-cityname 
instead of length. The length could be of anything and the variable 
could be reused. Besides native English speaking programmers have 
always faced the fact that their prime candidate for variable names 
were taken because they were a reserved word. Imho so is should stay 
length? and not be length-of though that last one saves me from pressing 
a shift-key.

Maybe it's too soon to think about optimizations, but what about 
function inlining?

(sorry that my question is out of topic... I was offline when I send 
it without noticing the unicode news:)

Optimizations are for Red/System v2 (the rewrite in Red). The compiler 
will have a different architecture much more suitable for optimizations 
(including function inlining).

Doc, how will the open sourcing of R3 have an impact on your Red 
work?  Will you be studying RT's code to see how everything was accomplished?

well, maybe depends upon the licence Carl selects? The other thing 
is - Doc might study some internals, but still he can't directly 
use C code, as Red is being written in Red/System, so C to Red/System 
rewrite would have to happen anyway ....

Of course, being able to understand Carl's R3 architecture might 
be REALLY inspirational, so I would not discount that option :-)

No changes for Red plans, I continue on the same path towards a complete 
v1.0.

Will you be studying RT's code to see how everything was accomplished?


Certainly not!! The GPL precludes me from looking at the code, the 
risk is too high to unconsciously write similar code and infringe 
the license. It is even worse than that, all Red contributions implementing 
a feature that exists in R3, will need to pass through a peer-reviewing 
process to determine if it is a derivative work of R3 or not. The 
reviewing persons would be able to look at R3 sources, but doing 
so, would not be able to contribute code to Red. So I strongly advise 
current and future Red contributors that wants to add REBOL features 
to Red from looking at R3 sources.

so C to Red/System rewrite would have to happen anyway ....

 No!! Porting GPL code to another language falls under derivate work 
 clause too. If it wasn't the case, it would be too easy to workaround 
 GPL terms by porting it from language A to B, then from B to A.


There is a reason why most big software companies prohibit their 
developers from looking at GPL source code.

Yes, that's how GPL can be bad to non-GPL world.

Besides that, GPL is great if you live in a GPL-only world.

Amen!

Your above post should be posted to the discussion forums ... the 
split of REBOL community might be apparent. As for me, I am staying 
with the active project, hence with Red ... Well, I am a coding lamer, 
so most probably I personally don't need to worry about eventually 
looking into R3 source code :-)

Feel free to re-publish my post everywhere you want. ;-)

(just fix the typos first ;-))

Well, I think that I will be a nice guy for quite some time, not 
trying to steal the happiness of guys out there :-)

So let me just say what I am thinking.. I wonder if R3 would be released 
already if you weren't making so much progress with Red..  I hope 
2 (or more) options will be able to bring even more people into Rebol 
family of languages. The time is about to be right. Python is getting 
sort of backlash (finally).

Well, R3 is not out yet, Carl did not say, which year he will release 
R3 sources on :-)

Before the Christmas, we might see extensive Red alpha, along with 
Android support ;-)

Janko: it can be a good or bad motivation for newcomers. Some might 
find it great to have the choice, other might be afraid by the fragmentation.

Because rebol/red are so different than anything else it might at 
the end help people learn about this coding mindset / convention, 
and then they have more choices. Sometimes lang choice is highly 
determined by runtime also (by my own exp).. in this case having 
many runtime options (red red/system rebol topaz) is a good thing.

anyway... Red is speeding with new dev last weeks, this is awesomest 
news for me.

I agree with you about the runtime choice. I wish Gabriele had more 
time to work on Topaz.

Janko: more "awesomenesses" to come in the next days/weeks. ;-)

It's ironic that we will have a GPL interpreter and a BSD compiler. 
It's much more logical to have a BSD interpreter and a GPL compiler...

The frontier between both architectures is blurry in modern language 
implementations. Red final compiler will be able to work both AOT 
and JIT, so BSD is the way to go.

I know, the irony is on the REBOL side

I'm on the Red team!

Red Unicode printing support extended to all Unix platforms:

http://static.red-lang.org/hello_unicode2.png

For those testing Unicode output on Windows, you need to change the 
default raster font of DOS console to Consolas (recommended) or Lucida. 
The default font is unable to print Unicode characters.

print "^(4F60)^(597D), ^(4E16)^(754C)!"  ; Chinese

Fast progress

Nice. And I am glad you are continuing your work Doc.

Jerry: My Windows doesn't support CJK, I'm not sure my Linux VM supports 
those characters too...will try it.

You can add support for CJK to Windows very easily. Just check one 
radio-box in font or localization settings.

Is it possible to add such font to DOS console?

Ah, found an HowTo: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/3780378/how-to-display-japanese-kanji-inside-a-cmd-window-under-windows

And now Red speaks Chinese too: http://static.red-lang.org/hello_unicode3.png

lol

Doc, does it also work in source code or only printed strings?

Henrik: look better at the screenshot. ;-)

(I've put the source of hello.red behind the console window)

Probably violates rules for legal variable names

You can use any Unicode character in your Red words.

Hello World in Chinese should probably be .. world hello and not 
hello world

I don't know Chinese, so I just took the string Jerry gave me.

You'll have to change your print string :)

I don't get any chars for Chinese, and in the Greek string third 
char is incorrect too ...