World: r4wp

in otjer words - how much is red compiled different to red interprete, 
speed wise?

Right Doc, thank you so much! I felt shivers going through my spine. 
I admit I also have Natasja on the couch, a cat on my lap, pears 
on the stove and John Lennon's Xmas song on the radio :-)

Once the Red interpreter + runtime library will be completed, none 
(modulo the REBOL semantics that Red will change or will not implement, 
which should be very minor).

Kaj: that's a good way to enjoy Xmas!

well, still not clear, what does interpreter do. So it takes a Red 
code, compiles it, and runs it? That would be JIT, no?

Kaj, ssems like a relaxed evening :-)

Exactly, but JIT can't be implemented until the self-hosted stage 
is reached, so in the meantime, Red will use that interpreter as 
a fallback.

Also, for the pure console usage, the interpreter is probably a better 
option than the JIT-compiler.

sorry for extensive typos, having few beers with friends, running 
via teamviewer on my cell phone :-)

This is really exciting Doc.

Pekr: cheers to you and friends!

Remember, everyone, I'll match donations made by 31-Dec up to USD$200. 
If we go beyond that, I'll see if I can match more.

Doc, it wpuld be nice to have cool console, if time permits. Do you 
remember r2 one, with possible cursor positioning? Fond rememberance 
of Amiga and color console :-) Really, some of my user experience 
of r3 was destroyed by crappy console experience ....

http://static.red-lang.org/tmp/Rsharp.exe

Would that one from Rsharp be enough? ;-)

(Funny, I now remember that I wanted to rename Rsharp to R2 back 
then for the 0.7.0 release that never made it public)

Believe it or not, that was back in 2005!

(you can try resizing too)

Yeah, it was weird that it was called R# in 2005 and wasn't a .NET 
language (iirc).

Very cool Doc.

Actually, it was a private joke at Softinnov to call it like that, 
it was meant to be a project code name, not the language final name.

cant run it now. but if you can make console pleasant, the better. 
r3 experience is terrible for me. What i like about it though, is 
some commands - help, docs, why?, chat, bugs, news ...

I hope the console is something others can help with, so Doc can 
focus on internals.

Gregg: I wish too...but nobody contributed a better console for R3 
after hostkit release, I doubt it will be better for Red.

I think R3 being closed was a big part of that. I hope anyway.

And some smart person might be able to build a console that could 
be leveraged for both, or at least parts of it.

Also, among the active contributors to the half-closed R3, none of 
us really found the console to be that limiting. Perhaps we didn't 
have enough Windows developers who weren't already accustomed to 
the Windows console.

Good point Brian.

actually, r2 console was much better. r3 one was supposed to run 
as a real coneole, eg via com port, etc, but failed to deliver. Carl 
really tried to address it, I tried to help with googling some references, 
but Windows is weird in that regard ...

We were more focused on lower-level things. The console wasn't much 
of a priority, especially since we were intending to implement it 
in the R3-GUI, and that wasn't there yet.

brianh - imo noone can get acustomed to that weird windows black 
crap :-) R2 is better experience. Carl admitted, that he might return 
r2 console to r3 codebase, and let ppl to develop it further ...

I hate white background, but YMMV :)

brianh - try to locate related blog. carl asked for help - if you 
link view, he was not able to let the conole work in a real console 
way, or something lik that :-) Well, off topic here ...

Right.

brian, you dont mean it, right? do i have multiline, with win native 
console? do i have real hostory? do i have positioning, like r2 allowed? 
:-)

OK, back on Red. If we want to discuss console implementation, let's 
change groups.

For Red, if someone doesn't jump in and do it, Doc will have to. 
Then he has to decide how important it is to helping Red succeed. 
I think it is, and will also help set a foundation for a Red IDE. 
For that, I don't know if it will even help Doc if we write up things 
we like, or don't about various consoles. I think he has a good feel 
for what is needed.

Now, if we can get Doc enough funding, he may be able to direct some 
of it to people he can work with, which would be great, and we can 
set up bountys as well.

gregg, I contributed only 50 eur, as i am setting up photo studio. 
but thanks for reminder, will send in another 50 :-)

Every little bit helps. Thanks Petr!

Actually, I am trying to send 50 on a month basis. Now r3 gui project 
is temting too, but i would have to see the project outline, eg seeing, 
that cyphre will be paid to update the engine to use hw acceleration, 
etc. I would love View engine to be useable with Red too. I ca feel 
some excitement last few weeks, fort both r3 and red projects :-)

Gregg: I have already code for a R2-like console (as shown by Rsharp.exe), 
but anyway, if I can find someone willing to do it and skilled enough, 
I would be glad to delegate that part.

...I have already "C" code...

Yes, RSharp works well in the little test I did here (until I did 
PRINT MOLD SYSTEM/WORDS). :-)

I added a checklist for consoles and IDEs. Put suggestions there 
to gather ideas.

Gregg, that RSharp version was pretty complete, it was implementing 
something like 60-70% of R2 functions/natives/actions.

A partial system object was even present.

Yeah, I was surprised when REPEAT worked.

And nice line editing.

I have fixed the main issue in Red runtime for the REPL to work properly, 
now I just need to extend a bit the tokenizer (LOAD) to handle  blocks 
and a few more details before releasing the code. The current tokenizer 
is very crude, I will rework it in the next days.

Hi Doc,