World: r4wp

Aha, I already have Fossil installed and use it for many purposes. 
So the Fossil dependency is very much like the REBOL dependency

I also want to get rid of the REBOL dependency, because there are 
new Red users who don't have REBOL installed. Same thing, but currently 
I have to use REBOL for the script

I know, but you are the only one I know. I was already thinking if 
you would have a problem if someone would mirror your files on Github, 
wouldn't you?

I wouldn't like it, but I open-sourced it, so you're free to do that

How many people do you know who use Red? Do you also think that's 
a reason to reject it?

Take it easy, I have no problem with your Fossil usage.. I just wanted 
to tell you, that someone else may find it not so friendly. Off topic 
btw.

I wish it would be enough to state my position once. I know how others 
think about it. I'm making improvements all the time, but I haven't 
had time for a central website yet. Is that so hard to accept?

Half a year ago people complained about the Fossil websites, so I 
developed the download script for them. That will have to do for 
now. I'm sure that when I make the website, people will want something 
else again

I think that people will stop complaining when everything Fossil-related 
is gone (extremly confusing website, dependency, ...).

Exactly, and that's not going to happen. I develop in Fossil, so 
that's the source of things

If you can't stand that, then don't go to the source

Here is a starter: https://raw.github.com/Oldes/rs/master/projects/kaj-fossil-download/latest/kaj-fossil-download.r

I agree.  If someone has a favorite or preferred tool and I want 
to access that person's work, I will learn the tool instead of making 
the person change.

Cool, thanks! But you need GitHub for that ;-)

(Although, it would be nice to have an index page...but not necessary.)

The central website is planned to become the index page. Until then, 
the index is in the download.r

Oldes, I'm interested in the psychology of this. Why would you rather 
write a script for which you need deep Fossil knowledge, than download 
one Fossil executable file?

Do we have a Fossil group? If not, we should, so this knowledge and 
chat doesn't get lost.

I know Kaj has posted thing a number of times, and I hate to make 
him repeat himself.

Yes, that would help

I need Github for what? I just used Github to share the script with 
other people who could use it. It's just a script made in a hurry, 
nothing special, I'm using many such a scripts :)

And why I make a script instead of installing Fossil? Because I like 
to write such a "data mining" scripts.. It's something like for someone 
else solving sudoku, for example.

OK, I can understand that. I have a hard time understanding such 
things from an efficiency standpoint. I'm always forced to be as 
efficient as I can, because I am doing so many projects

The way one needs GitHub for your script is the same way one needs 
Fossil for my work that people complain about. They're both web viewers 
for source control repositories that you can also use to give download 
links to people, although that's not their primary design

The fundamental problem here is that my decisions are always driven 
by efficiency, while the code I open source for free is downloaded 
by people who want to play with it. I can't afford to loose any time 
to playing, so I must insist that people don't waste my time. I don't 
think that should be a big requirement for all the work I give away 
for free

Difference between Github's web UI and Fossil's web UI is that Github 
can generate stable download URLs for the "latest" version. That's 
a huge difference even from an efficiency standpoint.

How so? Fossil supplies the same download URLs

Where?

Last time we looked at that, you said Fossil can't do that.

I link to them all the time

I never said that, because it isn't so

Then what's a stable link for the latest version of your download.r?

Which I can wget right away.

I always link to this article with a zip package of all my binaries:

http://web.syllable.org/news/2012-11-18-20-47-Red-high-level-programming-language-first-alpha.html

download.r is:

http://red.esperconsultancy.nl/Red-test/doc/trunk/download.r

Cool, then post that link in the future. First time it was posted 
here.

No need to interact with the Fossil web UI with that link.

I publish such links often when a single file is requested

Be sure to use them in the future, and the Fossil UI can be side-stepped 
completely.

Never saw such a link for download.r before (and don't find anything 
using AltME search either, but then ...).

It always could. I've explained many times that Fossil can do everything 
Git can

I published three links in that form in the Announce channel, just 
not of download.r. There are many files, and people are already tired 
of my links

I'd suggest to use those links in the future.

I'll keep it in mind. And I'll remind of this request when people 
complain about my announcements again :-)

In any case, that's the difference between Oldes' link posted before 
and your previous "get download.r from http://red.esperconsultancy.nl/Red-test/dir?ci=tip".
Oldes' link doesn't require you to interact with Github's UI, your 
link requires one to interact with Fossil's UI.

Yes, because I want to supply some context and I don't want to spam 
with many links that can also be had on one web page

I am with Kaj on this. Supplying the download link when you update 
some project is not meaningful. If the corresponding link to the 
fossil rep is posted you can take a quick look at the  projectfiles 
and then decide if it is worth the troul]ble for you to update your 
own repo's with the dl script.

Besides that, the Github is not a nice solution imho just chosen 
because of free, and widely used (for exposure purposes) not for 
real ease iyam (if you ask me). So better appreciate the huge work 
Kaj has pulled of to make Red much more widely useable and accept 
his choice.

I would be interested in the demo video from Kaj where he shows how 
he uses fossil in his daily work.