[REBOL] Re: (no subject)
From: robbo1mark:aol at: 6-Jul-2001 12:22
NO JEFF,
I must strongly object!
We don't have different standards, different abilities and
different access to resources then yes.
You get paid full time to work on REBOL, write REBOL & native
code, and have full access to all parts of the system as well
as the people who wrote the different parts of REBOL that
you didn't help write personally.
IT WAS YOU WHO SUGGESTED TRYING TO IMPLEMENT ZERO INDEXING
BY REDEFINING WORDS.
I took up the challenge for the fun of it, however I have a
full time pressing day job and can only "Hack" at REBOL and
everything else inmy spare time so I suppose IAM what I've
heard RT folks term a "Hobbyist".
I didn't write ANY of the REBOL mezzanine code so when trying
to FIND and replace redefine words how else do you suggest
that somebody attempts it other than trying to SEARCH for
what your looking for and REPLACE it if you think it makes
sense.
So yes that's MUTILATION if the folks who really know where
everything is and what needs to be changed WON'T do anything
at all to try & help you.
Therefore an open source approach of "with enough eyeballs
all bugs are shallow" I posted what I had and appealed to
those on the List who are interested in ZERO INDEXING to
help me incrementally refine and improve the code until it
doesn't break anything and is not a mutilation as you so
kindly put it.
It hurts my brain too knowing that with the "right" HELP
the task could be approached so much better and the desired
results produced so much more cleanly and quicker.
Okay so you don't agree with zero indexing nor think that
would have a beneficial effect on achieving the "goals" of
REBOL. But what about the goals of your users?
Nobody would be forced to use a completed & highly polished
ZERO-INDEX
patch, people would only use it if they wanted
and if they felt it made REBOL seem more intuitive or easier
for them. If you are correct then these people are in the
minority, and that may be so, but do their needs not matter?
Nobody would be "harmed" by a zero-index patch, some people
might benefit, so is that a wrong thing to aspire to or to
try to help to create?
YOU have more talent, expertise and resources than me, that
much is obvious, why not practice what you preach about being
a good list member and help me out here rather than only
offering unconstructive criticism and negativity.
Maybe YOU & most others wouldn't like or use the zero-index-patch,
that's fine that's your perogative, but why not respect the people
who might and offer some helpful advice & constructive support
to your users / supporters / customers who would prefer zero based
indexing.
I don't want to mutilate REBOL, I want zero-indexing and logical
equivalence of zero, none, false values etc. If as you put it
Iam making a pig's ear of things then for goodness sake HELP
me, put me on the right tracks. I'll do all the donkey work if
you give me a prescription of what needs to be done.
>> Pick [false true] none
== false
looks just as pretty as ...
>> Pick [ 1 2 ] false
== 2
Surely this is an "aesthetic" difference / preference about style
and correctness. If you agree with that then why is it so heinous
for people to disagree with you?
The ball as they say is back in your court.
cheers my REBOL friend 8-)
Mark Dickson
>> Also why do you have to use words like "relentless quest"
>> and "mutilate" why not "interesting changes" and "trying to
>> resolve peacefully an ongoing issue".
>
> I wouldn't use words like "interesting changes" -- "resolve
> blah blah" because that wouldn't be my opinion. To me,
> blind search and replace hacks on any moderately sized
> software system is the definition of reckless and capricious
> software mutilation. And watching it with REBOL as the
> target just hurts my brain. :-)
>
> I suppose we have different standards, Mark.
-jeff
