another piece for pdf-dialect
[1/11] from: agem::crosswinds::net at: 25-Jul-2001 22:16
another piece for pdf-dialect
Hi Gabriele
http://jove.prohosting.com/~screbol/reb/pdf-03.rip
can now wrap, but needs dialect-embedding :)
-Volker
[2/11] from: g:santilli:tiscalinet:it at: 26-Jul-2001 19:12
Hello [agem--crosswinds--net]!
On 25-Lug-01, you wrote:
a> http://jove.prohosting.com/~screbol/reb/pdf-03.rip
a> can now wrap, but needs dialect-embedding :)
Argh! I worked on wrapping too (well... I should have sent a mail
to you before starting... :/ ), mainly because I wanted to make it
one pass only (that is, I do kerning, wrapping and rendering in
one step); also I discovered PDF viewers are not doing kerning
automatically, and this was the main reason to do all at once.
Anyway, I'll take a look at your work and see if I can improve
mine using it. The new PDF Maker with wrapping, justification,
text alignment etc. plus documentation will be out very soon.
(Actually, only the doc has to be written, the rest seems to be
working --- but maybe I'll find a lot of useful things in that RIP
and add them to pdf-maker.r.)
a> -Volker
Thanks again for the AFM parser; all this would not have been
possible without it. :)
Regards,
Gabriele.
--
Gabriele Santilli <[giesse--writeme--com]> - Amigan - REBOL programmer
Amiga Group Italia sez. L'Aquila -- http://www.amyresource.it/AGI/
[3/11] from: robert:muench:robertmuench at: 27-Jul-2001 10:30
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [rebol-bounce--rebol--com] [mailto:[rebol-bounce--rebol--com]]On Behalf Of
<<quoted lines omitted: 7>>
> working --- but maybe I'll find a lot of useful things in that RIP
> and add them to pdf-maker.r.)
Hi, this sounds really good! If it's available, I try to add a PDF emitter to
make-doc :-)). Robert
[4/11] from: g:santilli:tiscalinet:it at: 27-Jul-2001 18:11
Hello Robert!
On 27-Lug-01, you wrote:
RM> Hi, this sounds really good! If it's available, I try to add
RM> a PDF emitter to make-doc :-)). Robert
I don't know if I'll be able to finish the doc during this weekend
(I'll have to work on other things), but if you want I can send
the new version to you with a brief description of the commands.
(You'll have a little problem when adapting make-doc: how to split
text into pages? Of course the HTML emitter does not have this
problem. :) Because of this, I plan to enhance the typesetter to
do that automatically; I just don't know when...)
Regards,
Gabriele.
--
Gabriele Santilli <[giesse--writeme--com]> - Amigan - REBOL programmer
Amiga Group Italia sez. L'Aquila -- http://www.amyresource.it/AGI/
[5/11] from: robert:muench:robertmuench at: 28-Jul-2001 11:34
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [rebol-bounce--rebol--com] [mailto:[rebol-bounce--rebol--com]]On Behalf Of
<<quoted lines omitted: 5>>
> (I'll have to work on other things), but if you want I can send
> the new version to you with a brief description of the commands.
Hi, that would be great!
> (You'll have a little problem when adapting make-doc: how to split
> text into pages? Of course the HTML emitter does not have this
> problem. :) Because of this, I plan to enhance the typesetter to
> do that automatically; I just don't know when...)
I know... it might be just a quick hack to get things started. The quick and
dirty solution is just to count lines and set a page-break. Maybe there is a
chance to use the LaTeX/TeX method for calculation... Robert
[6/11] from: g:santilli:tiscalinet:it at: 28-Jul-2001 15:30
Hello Robert!
On 28-Lug-01, you wrote:
RM> I know... it might be just a quick hack to get things
RM> started. The quick and dirty solution is just to count lines
RM> and set a page-break. Maybe there is a chance to use the
RM> LaTeX/TeX method for calculation... Robert
But how could you now where the text will be wrapped? :-)
I think I can hack a multi-textbox typesetter in not too much
time; it won't be as good as TeX though... :)
Regards,
Gabriele.
--
Gabriele Santilli <[giesse--writeme--com]> - Amigan - REBOL programmer
Amiga Group Italia sez. L'Aquila -- http://www.amyresource.it/AGI/
[7/11] from: robert:muench:robertmuench at: 30-Jul-2001 9:35
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [rebol-bounce--rebol--com] [mailto:[rebol-bounce--rebol--com]]On Behalf Of
<<quoted lines omitted: 5>>
> I think I can hack a multi-textbox typesetter in not too much
> time; it won't be as good as TeX though... :)
Hi, AFAIK does TeX use such a multi-box approach. Each character uses a defined
2D space, depending on the font settings. TeX sums all those boxes and knows the
size of the page, therefore it should be possible to calculate a page break. Do
you have access to Donald Knuth's book about TeX? The basic algorithm isn't that
hard I have heard. And let's face it: I don't expect a TeX quality type-setting
at the moment, would be nice to be able to create "good-enough" PDFs for the
start. Robert
[8/11] from: g:santilli:tiscalinet:it at: 30-Jul-2001 19:34
Hello Robert!
On 30-Lug-01, you wrote:
RM> Hi, AFAIK does TeX use such a multi-box approach. Each
RM> character uses a defined 2D space, depending on the font
RM> settings. TeX sums all those boxes and knows the size of the
RM> page, therefore it should be possible to calculate a page
AFAIK TeX tries not to break paragraphs, avoids putting section
titles or spaces at the end of the page, etc. Ita has a lot of
nice euristics to create the best layout.
RM> break. Do you have access to Donald Knuth's book about TeX?
I don't, unfortunately. I've not been able to find Knuth's books
in local book stores or libraries...
RM> The basic algorithm isn't that hard I have heard. And let's
Indeed, as I said, a QAD solution wouldn't be difficult to add.
Regards,
Gabriele.
--
Gabriele Santilli <[giesse--writeme--com]> - Amigan - REBOL programmer
Amiga Group Italia sez. L'Aquila -- http://www.amyresource.it/AGI/
[9/11] from: dness:home at: 30-Jul-2001 15:26
Gabriele Santilli wrote:
> Hello Robert!
> On 30-Lug-01, you wrote:
<<quoted lines omitted: 13>>
> Gabriele.
> --
PMFJI but I have a developing interest in REBOL and considerable past expertise
with TeX. I have missed the discussion up to this point, but I will go back
and see if I can re-construct it and perhaps add something about `how'
TeX does `whatever' you are interested in. In the meantime, I would be
happy to hear (and try to answer) specific questions.
To discuss a point raised in this particular communication, (I hope I have
the context right), TeX does `paragraph breaking' through a rather elaborate
set of `penalties' which are evaluated using a dynamic programming algorithm.
This allows the TeX writer to describe his/her `feelings' about the things in
typesetting that are `not nice'. For example, a `title' line as the last line
of a page is _very_ `not nice'. Similarly, paragraph spacing may be quite `strechable'
but if you make it either way too big or way too small, you have high penalties.
I hope this is relevant to your conversation...
[10/11] from: g:santilli:tiscalinet:it at: 31-Jul-2001 18:59
Hello David!
On 30-Lug-01, you wrote:
DN> considerable past expertise with TeX. I have missed the
DN> discussion up to this point, but I will go back and see if I
We are talking about PDF Maker's typesetting engine. It is very
simple at the moment, but Robert said it should not be difficult
to make it almost as good as TeX; I pointed out that TeX has a
very powerful typesetter and that I won't have the time to write
something as good in the short time.
I also wuold like to keep it as simple as possible and as
low-level as it is now.
DN> To discuss a point raised in this particular communication,
[...]
I used LaTeX quite a lot in the past (and will probably continue
using it in the future), so I know it was doing something like
this. I wonder, is the final result achieved using iteration or in
one step?
Regards,
Gabriele.
--
Gabriele Santilli <[giesse--writeme--com]> - Amigan - REBOL programmer
Amiga Group Italia sez. L'Aquila -- http://www.amyresource.it/AGI/
[11/11] from: robert:muench:robertmuench at: 1-Aug-2001 10:00
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [rebol-bounce--rebol--com] [mailto:[rebol-bounce--rebol--com]]On Behalf Of
<<quoted lines omitted: 5>>
> simple at the moment, but Robert said it should not be difficult
> to make it almost as good as TeX;
Hi Gabriele, well I hope we don't have a "silent mail" situation here ;-) I hope
I didn't said it's easy to make a QAD solution as good as TeX... anyway I hope
to find some time to play around with this. Robert
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