Community (was IOS).
[1/40] from: tbrownell::shaw::ca at: 18-Mar-2002 11:47
Here's a quote from the second article from Jason's IOS post...
According to Sassenrath, another complaint he hears often is that REBOL
isn't open source. The scripts are open source, but the system itself is
not. Sassenrath says that the company plans to release the system one day,
but that it needs to age a bit more.
While we control it, we can give 100
percent confidence that a script you write on one machine will run on any
other machine. Once we open it, that will start to fade." Strangely enough,
this hasn't proven to be a problem for the many other languages that have
been released openly. "
I started using Rebol because it was just so darn easy to learn, and makes
great AI.
But I find myself referencing other languages more and more when trying to
determine how to do something in .R. eg: Need to control some app via API?
Let's see how they do it in Perl etc. Of late, I've being reading up on PHP
again. Not bad, gots a compiler and everything. It's great if you need
dynamic pages with MySQL access, of course, it can't do everything that .R
can.
But PHP and the other languages out there have something that Rebol
doesn't... community, and plenty of it. As an experiment I did various
google searches using "n tutorial" (with quotes), with the following page
counts ...
Java tutorial
- 81,600
PHP tutorial
- 9,940
C++ tutorial
- 9,820
Perl tutorial
- 13,600
Rebol tutorial
- 42
42? Yes, 42. The problem is the Rebol community, although incredibly savvy
and helpful, is just too small. No wonder there's a lack of documentation,
simply no one around to create it. I belive this has been recognized by RT,
so they've been concentrating on IOS rather than expending on Rebol itself
for so few users. (Relatively speaking). Any one "killer app" idea is worth
more than the language it is written in.
So, if RT is going to just concentrate on apps, then why not offer Pro and
command for free? Of course, if View/Pro/Command is making ANY decent money
at all, then forget it, but if not, why not. I don't see Rebol growing too
quickly given all the options out there that have 2000 times the community,
and are free as well.
Of course, if it was opened, then the community would grow as well.
TB
[2/40] from: greggirwin:mindspring at: 18-Mar-2002 16:29
<< "Rebol tutorial" - 42
42? Yes, 42. >>
42!! OK, don't anybody write ANY MORE tutorials for REBOL! (all you Douglas
Adams fans out there know what I'm talking about. :)
--Gregg
[3/40] from: gchiu:compkarori at: 19-Mar-2002 14:46
On Mon, 18 Mar 2002 11:47:17 -0800
Terry Brownell <[tbrownell--shaw--ca]> wrote:
> "Java tutorial" - 81,600
> "PHP tutorial" - 9,940
> "C++ tutorial" - 9,820
> "Perl tutorial" - 13,600
> "Rebol tutorial" - 42
This is fun ...
java bug 842,000
perl bug 579,000
php bug 1,090,000
C++ bug 497,000
rebol bug 5,090
--
Graham Chiu
[4/40] from: carl:cybercraft at: 19-Mar-2002 20:50
On 19-Mar-02, Terry Brownell wrote:
> So, if RT is going to just concentrate on apps, then why not offer
> Pro and command for free? Of course, if View/Pro/Command is making
> ANY decent money at all, then forget it, but if not, why not. I
> don't see Rebol growing too quickly given all the options out there
> that have 2000 times the community, and are free as well.
> Of course, if it was opened, then the community would grow as well.
I'm not sure what the difference between open-and-free and
closed-and-free would be with regards to REBOL's popularity, but
there's a great example of the difference between free and not-free
on download.com. Go here...
http://download.cnet.com/
enter REBOL in the search engine and this is the result you get...
Core - freeware - 2,946 downloads.
View - shareware, $49 - 222 downloads.
People like free.
Personally I would've prefered RT to be selling developers' versions
of REBOL with "player" versions for free, (no Console and help and
stuff perhaps), but I acknowledge REBOL's a very hard language to
work out how to sell.
--
Carl Read
[5/40] from: tim:johnsons-web at: 18-Mar-2002 20:13
* Terry Brownell <[tbrownell--shaw--ca]> [020318 13:55]:
> Here's a quote from the second article from Jason's IOS post...
> "According to Sassenrath, another complaint he hears often is that REBOL
<<quoted lines omitted: 5>>
> this hasn't proven to be a problem for the many other languages that have
> been released openly. "
It's probable that when python and mysql went open source, that it increased
contributions to the products.
Just think, if /core goes open source some perl expatriate might hack the
regex engine from perl and put it in rebol. Now that would be a killer!
Just dreaming.....
--
Tim Johnson <[tim--johnsons-web--com]>
http://www.alaska-internet-solutions.com
http://www.johnsons-web.com
[6/40] from: chris:starforge:demon at: 19-Mar-2002 10:29
Graham Chiu wrote:
> This is fun ...
>
> java bug 842,000
Looks like google can't get access to the java developer connection,
according to Sun's bug tracker that should actually be something like
(make sure you are sitting down before reading ahead)
4652671 bugs reported (as of 10:30 today..)
4652671 is the latest one I could find - Sun have no "latest 25 bugs" or
number of bugs
display any more.. probably for a good reason..
Chris
--
.------{ http://www.starforge.co.uk }-----. .--------------------------.
=[ Explorer2260, Designer and Coder \=\ P: TexMaker, ROACH, site \
=[___You_will_obey_your_corporate_masters___]==[ Stack: EETmTmTRRSS------ ]
[7/40] from: tbrownell:shaw:ca at: 19-Mar-2002 0:31
If you enclose "rebol bug" in quotes for the boolean effect, you get 6.
TB
[8/40] from: pwoodward:cncdsl at: 19-Mar-2002 9:13
Hmm,
but if you take those numbers and use them like so:
Java Bugs 842,000 / Java Tutorial 81,600 = 10.32
Rebol Bugs 5,090 / Rebol Tutorial 42 = 121.19
This may not mean any thing - and certainly isn't meant to imply that there
are an average of 10.32 bugs per tutorial. But it does give a pretty good
idea to the ratio of bugs to tutorials on the 'net. On the flip side, I
suspect that any bug counts found by searching may be misleading. Many bug
reports are made on mailing lists, or newsgroups which are then mirrored on
multiple sites.
But, it is interesting to look at.
- Porter
[9/40] from: joel:neely:fedex at: 19-Mar-2002 6:18
Hi, Gregg,
All the mice at my house are laughing hysterically...
Gregg Irwin wrote:
> << "Rebol tutorial" - 42
>
> 42? Yes, 42. >>
>
> 42!! OK, don't anybody write ANY MORE tutorials for REBOL! (all you Douglas
> Adams fans out there know what I'm talking about. :)
>
--
; Joel Neely joeldotneelyatfedexdotcom
REBOL [] do [ do func [s] [ foreach [a b] s [prin b] ] sort/skip
do function [s] [t] [ t: "" foreach [a b] s [repend t [b a]] t ] {
| e s m!zauafBpcvekexEohthjJakwLrngohOqrlryRnsctdtiub} 2 ]
[10/40] from: james:mustard at: 19-Mar-2002 21:31
Graham Chiu wrote:
> This is fun ...
>
> java bug 842,000
> perl bug 579,000
> php bug 1,090,000
> C++ bug 497,000
> rebol bug 5,090
>
My research also backed up this trend..
java sux 16,600
perl sux 14,300
php sux 33,400
c++ sux 4,620
rebol sux 157
So based on bugs and overall suckiness we should all be learning REBOL and
avoiding PHP and Java like the plague? :)
heh.
[11/40] from: tbrownell:shaw:ca at: 19-Mar-2002 10:54
Also from Cnet downloads...
Perl2.exe 3.08
Convert Perl scripts to EXE files.
License: Shareware
Downloads...31,521
[12/40] from: belymt:saunalahti:fi at: 19-Mar-2002 22:40
>People like free.
Some things in life are worth paying for.. But not all.
>Personally I would've prefered RT to be selling developers' versions
>of REBOL with "player" versions for free, (no Console and help and
>stuff perhaps), but I acknowledge REBOL's a very hard language to
>work out how to sell.
Me too.
I could use it if there were free (or very cheap) and easy to install
runtime for my View.programs. Last time I checked there was none.
Joanna
About rebol itself:
After reading Rebol-dummy book i realized that Rebol Core was good for ONE
use.. It's excellent tool for automating E-mail addresses harvesting and
junk mailing.. Unfortunately my ethics don't allow me to do that.
[13/40] from: steve:shireman:semaxwireless at: 19-Mar-2002 13:32
The most important thing about 42 is the context in which it was
evaluated...;-)
Steve Shireman
The crux of the biscuit, is the 'apostrophe...
Frank Zappa
Gregg Irwin wrote:
[14/40] from: carl:cybercraft at: 19-Mar-2002 22:01
On 19-Mar-02, Graham Chiu wrote:
> On Mon, 18 Mar 2002 11:47:17 -0800
> Terry Brownell <[tbrownell--shaw--ca]> wrote:
<<quoted lines omitted: 10>>
> C++ bug 497,000
> rebol bug 5,090
Yeah - Bugs per tutorial...
>> java: 842000 / 81600
== 10.31862745098
>> PHP: 1090000 / 9940
== 109.65794768612
>> C++: 497000 / 9820
== 50.61099796334
>> Perl: 579000 / 13600
== 42.573529411765
>> REBOL: 5090 / 42
== 121.19047619048
REBOL looks less good now Graham. (:
--
Carl Read
[15/40] from: jason:cunliffe:verizon at: 19-Mar-2002 19:23
> java sux 16,600
> perl sux 14,300
> php sux 33,400
> c++ sux 4,620
> rebol sux 157
I played this game for little while yesterday too - using keys such as
'bugs', 'docs', 'help', 'crash', 'fun', 'how-to', etc. If well correlated,
it _might_ really reveal something interesting, but probably about google
more than the languages you want to compare, especially Rebol. Why?
One thing which makes rebol different is that .r files are largely invisible
to google searches
Try finding index.r for example. The whole idea of publishing to rebsites
and by extension IOS, is that one uses globally propagated Internet
protocols to support custom community networks and thus new group-level
interoperability.
The normal web 'invisibility' of REBOL is superb catch-22 in this sense. A
strange early victim of its own success.
This is also why I suspect it can be hard to find timely rebol help, because
lots of cool rebol examples and source are not visible to google. Someone
posted a rebol/view find script not long ago. But rebol needs a built-in set
of find functions like RedHat did for rpm and when they added RedHatNetwork
stuff also.
As the web space gets increasingly polluted with pop-up spam, this
invisibility seems like it should/could be real selling point.
But it needs better bridges so that people can hide or reveal rebol better
according to their needs.
At present Rebol offers but not quite yet delivers a viable alternative to
ordinary HTML life.
What features are missing?
- The desktop of /View does not include any useful ways to search or sort
among rebsites.
- No option to list rebsites other than icon array. No detailed list mode.
The idea of rebsites starts off great, but seem to have been abandoned by
/View
When you roll over the mouse on rebsite icons you get a line of text. That
shows the potential, but it is not well used.
A few bytes can go a long way when they give people relevant information
BEFORE they click and maintain some state AFTER. Almost all the problems
with HTML for community building come down to the lack of persistence and
the fact that http is stateless..Thus cookies, server sessions etc etc.
Rebol delivers persistence and state. Rebol/View knows how to check first in
its cache before trying the Internet. But imo this wonderful idea is not
really followed though to its next logical steps.
- No update or 'visited' visual iconographics.You have no way of even
knowing which rebsite you have already looked, which noes have new material,
etc..
Rebol seems made for this, but in effect the only resource we have is this
is mailing list and even then the only way to find anything is to do some
funky search though mailing list archives. Time-consuming.
It would be good if rebsites could give any kind of indication of their
activity level. That would allow rapid browsing and sorting of sites,
propagation of new ideas etc. Community building of a new kind.
- There is no built-in way to group or label rebsites, other than to write
ones own index.r files with more rebsite links. But these will soon be hard
to maintain as they are static. This goes against the splendid potential in
Rebol for emergent adaptive networking using "fast, cheap and
out-of-control" strategies. I wish default /View desktop would encourage
better default access and use of rebsites, and rebol data. As has been
pointed out rebol data and programs are only a matter of perspective.
In any event is strikes me that with REBOL/View and some smart use of Rugby
integrated into every /View installation, all the above could be answered.
Maybe I am just too ignorant still of IOS, its desktop and publish
functions. Does it already fix all these problems??
./Jason
[16/40] from: greggirwin:mindspring at: 19-Mar-2002 16:49
Hi Joanna,
<< I could use it if there were free (or very cheap) and easy to install
runtime for my View.programs. Last time I checked there was none. >>
For non-commercial use, you can use View (not View/Pro), can't you?
--Gregg
[17/40] from: gchiu:compkarori at: 20-Mar-2002 12:30
> I could use it if there were free (or very cheap) and
> easy to install
> runtime for my View.programs. Last time I checked there
> was none.
As I and others have mentioned, perhaps RT should look at a
mechanism for freely encaping freeware View reblets to help
spread the message.
--
Graham Chiu
[18/40] from: koopmans:itr:ing:nl at: 19-Mar-2002 10:28
On Tuesday 19 March 2002 00:29, you wrote:
> << "Rebol tutorial" - 42
>
> 42? Yes, 42. >>
>
> 42!! OK, don't anybody write ANY MORE tutorials for REBOL! (all you Douglas
> Adams fans out there know what I'm talking about. :)
>
Exactly! SO REBOL IS THE ANSWER. And we worship in silence....
--Maarten
[19/40] from: rebolek:seznam:cz at: 19-Mar-2002 11:18
yes I know, 6 * 7, exactly ;-)
[20/40] from: carl:cybercraft at: 20-Mar-2002 20:00
On 20-Mar-02, Graham Chiu wrote:
>> I could use it if there were free (or very cheap) and
>> easy to install
<<quoted lines omitted: 3>>
> mechanism for freely encaping freeware View reblets to help
> spread the message.
Encapped scripts are not cross-platform though, right? And don't our
nice tiny little scripts suddenly grow into 400k+ band-width using
monsters?
What I'd like to be able to do is encrypt a script (or part of one)
and have REBOL check for a key when it encounters such a script and
only decrypt and run it if the key is the right key for the script.
No doubt we can do this with Pro's built-in encryption, but it'd then
require those using our scripts to have paid for Pro as well.
Would encryption expand a script's size by much?
--
Carl Read
[21/40] from: pwoodward:cncdsl at: 20-Mar-2002 8:51
All -
what about making index.r files visible to search engines? Depending on how
much control over your web server you have, it could be easy to serve
index.r as the default for directories. Apache and IIS make this a
relatively trivial process. Just setup the server to serve index.r,
index.html, index.htm, etc. In that order.
Now - you may ask - what happens when a plain-jane web browser hits that
index.r? Well, unless we have a standard way of detecting the requestor
(e.g. browser type) and taking the appropriate action, it won't do us much
good. So every index.r (or other publicly accessible rebol page) should
probably do a quick check to see if it's being requested by a REBOL client -
if so it should just hand over the code. Otherwise, it should probably
print some nice HTML message for older browsers to understand.
Something about this being a "Rebol Powered" site - and needing REBOL to
function - not unlike a Flash site. Now, this could be annoying to some -
but the presupposition is that we're not going to be stuck with browsers
forever.
- Porter
[22/40] from: gscottjones:mchsi at: 20-Mar-2002 10:16
From: "Porter Woodward"
> All -
>
> what about making index.r files visible to search engines? Depending on
how
> much control over your web server you have, it could be easy to serve
> index.r as the default for directories. Apache and IIS make this a
<<quoted lines omitted: 5>>
> good. So every index.r (or other publicly accessible rebol page) should
> probably do a quick check to see if it's being requested by a REBOL
client -
> if so it should just hand over the code. Otherwise, it should probably
> print some nice HTML message for older browsers to understand.
...
Hi, Porter,
A file contaning something like the following works on my wife's website.
IE opens it as a webpage. /View opens the embedded REBOL script.
<html>
Hello, World!
<!--
[
rebol[]
view layout [text "Hello, World!"]
]
-->
</html>
That is a very clever idea that you have. I don't know why it wasn't more
obvious earlier.
--Scott Jones
[23/40] from: jason:cunliffe:verizon at: 20-Mar-2002 11:55
Porter Woodward
<[pwoodward--cncdsl--com]> wrote:
> what about making index.r files visible to search engines? Depending on how
> much control over your web server you have, it could be easy to serve
> index.r as the default for directories. Apache and IIS make this a
> relatively trivial process. Just setup the server to serve index.r,
> index.html, index.htm, etc. In that order.
Yes. In Apache you use the DirectoryIndex directive:
DirectoryIndex index.html index.htm index.shtml index.php index.r
I have not played around with the order yet. Experimenting now with substituting
all my index.html files with index.r files so that folders become 'smart',
creating self indexing links. When new stuff is uploaded into them, index.r is
always uptodate since its dynamic. This is so trivial to do but immediately
opens up some interesting options for self maintaining web sites. Next is
include some metadata files in each folder which the index.r files can use. For
example
about.txt [description]
use.r [local file tracking access]
etc
What I really want is something in REBOL which works a little like Zope's
powerful 'acquistion' without the voodoo baggage of Zope. For those that don't
know, Zope is a server side content management system writetn in Python. It is
thus highly object-oriented and adaptable, using URL paths to access a 2-way web
object model.
http://someserver.com/topfolder/subfolder/english/graphic/afile.html
In Zope, this might be a regular URL descending the default hierarchical file
structure tree, but it might also be combined with methods which change the
context namespace before rendering the file "afile.html". In the URL above,
english
muight be subfolder or it might be script to render in that langauge.
graphic
might a zope method to enable thumbnails etc. graphic might in fact
live at the top level in the Zope object hierachy. Meaning it need only be
defined once and everything 'below' can access or acquire it. In Zope the
traverasl searach starts at the bottom [end of the URL path] and looks up to its
parent to ask "do you have a methiod called 'graphic'?" If yes then it uses that
one, ie the first one it finds. If no then it asks its parent and so on. The
result is site-wide shared functions which can be implemented by putting methods
at the top level. A single change to one method script can alter all refrencesw
to it across a site. Very powerful. These can be overloaded, customized by
inserting variations of the same name anywhere in the hierachy. This allows
local contexts to be changed modularly while allowing common code and embedded
method calls to remain the same.
What strategies in REBOL can we use so that each index.r maintain itsef easily?
It could be something very simple. An index.r is either a "parent" or not. If
enabled as a parent a script will return its code when any child asks for it,
else it will ask up the hierachy to find a parent. In practice once can populate
a site with empty index.r scripts [the default]. All they know to do is ask for
a parent script. when they find it they run the code locally at their level. Any
tmie you want to customize, just add implicit or inherited behavior..
I am thinking out loud here, so please jump in. REBOL seems ideal for
implementing all sorts of genetically inspired adaptive designs, including for
simple but powerful inter-website programming.
Vanilla already offers many wonderful features in a very elegant model of its
own.
> Now - you may ask - what happens when a plain-jane web browser hits that
> index.r? Well, unless we have a standard way of detecting the requestor
<<quoted lines omitted: 3>>
> if so it should just hand over the code. Otherwise, it should probably
> print some nice HTML message for older browsers to understand.
Good idea. How do you check if it's being requested by a REBOL client?
> Something about this being a "Rebol Powered" site - and needing REBOL to
> function - not unlike a Flash site. Now, this could be annoying to some -
> but the presupposition is that we're not going to be stuck with browsers
> forever.
Yes. Also rebol scripts can be embedded within HTML.
How many people have played around with this feature?
./Jason
[24/40] from: gchiu:compkarori at: 21-Mar-2002 8:07
> Encapped scripts are not cross-platform though, right?
> And don't our
> nice tiny little scripts suddenly grow into 400k+
> band-width using
> monsters?
One of the points was to make it easy to run a script
without having to install the interpreter separately.
One would provide the encapped Windows version, and a source
code version.
--
Graham Chiu
[25/40] from: gchiu:compkarori at: 21-Mar-2002 8:03
> <html>
> Hello, World!
<<quoted lines omitted: 5>>
> -->
> </html>
Hi Scott,
I was looking at something similar early last year when I
was writing Vidwiki.
I have embedded Vid code in my home page which is hidden
within <layout> ... </layout> tags, and only displayable by
a View program. The web server (Zope) dynamically serves up
HTML and VID on the same page.
There's a small reblet
sites/compkarori2/rbrowser
that displays the marked up parts of the page.
I got distracted by Vidwiki and forgot that I still had it
there :(
But to be usable, I needed a table style which still doesn't
exist in the wild.
--
Graham Chiu
[26/40] from: gscottjones:mchsi at: 20-Mar-2002 15:43
From: "Graham Chiu"
...
> I have embedded Vid code in my home page which is hidden
> within <layout> ... </layout> tags, and only displayable by
> a View program. The web server (Zope) dynamically serves up
> HTML and VID on the same page.
...
For those desiring "direct links" in email:
http://www.compkarori.com
or
http://www.compkarori.co.nz
which both redirect to:
http://203.79.82.38/
...
> There's a small reblet
>
> sites/compkarori2/rbrowser
>
> that displays the marked up parts of the page.
It took me a moment to grok (1) what was going on, but now I get it.
> I got distracted by Vidwiki and forgot that I still had it
> there :(
I sure am glad that *I* never get distracted. :-) Uh, what was I just
writing about?
> But to be usable, I needed a table style which still doesn't
> exist in the wild.
That does seem like it would be useful at times. I could envision a "table"
style being similar to the "list" style, with some sort of supply
definition, or something, for the fields. I wish I had time to kick that
idea around a bit.
I'll leave my little test page on my wife's site for a day or two, for those
curious to see what it looks like.
WWW browse over to:
http://www.midwestgypsy.com/hello.html
then, at REBOL/View console:
do http://www.midwestgypsy.com/hello.html
Thanks for the additional input.
BTW isn't awfully early in the morning in your neck of the woods?
--Scott Jones
(1) grok:
http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr/jargon/html/entry/grok.html
[27/40] from: a:none:email:it at: 20-Mar-2002 19:15
How do you view the "View" part of the page? I was unable to run it inside
of View.
Adrian
----- Original Message -----
From: G. Scott Jones <[gscottjones--mchsi--com]>
To: <[rebol-list--rebol--com]>
Sent: Wednesday, March 20, 2002 4:43 PM
Subject: [REBOL] Re: Community (was IOS).
> From: "Graham Chiu"
> ...
<<quoted lines omitted: 23>>
> > exist in the wild.
> That does seem like it would be useful at times. I could envision a
table
> style being similar to the "list" style, with some sort of supply
> definition, or something, for the fields. I wish I had time to kick that
> idea around a bit.
>
> I'll leave my little test page on my wife's site for a day or two, for
those
> curious to see what it looks like.
> WWW browse over to:
<<quoted lines omitted: 10>>
> [rebol-request--rebol--com] with "unsubscribe" in the
> subject, without the quotes.
--
Prendi GRATIS l'email universale che... risparmia: http://www.email.it/f
Sponsor:
Le maglie con il numero e il nome dei tuoi campioni, sono sul Milanstore
Clicca qui: http://adv.email.it/cgi-bin/foclick.cgi?mid=313&d=21-3
[28/40] from: gchiu:compkarori at: 21-Mar-2002 20:13
On Wed, 20 Mar 2002 15:43:18 -0600
"G. Scott Jones" <[gscottjones--mchsi--com]> wrote:
> That does seem like it would be useful at times. I could
> envision a "table"
<<quoted lines omitted: 3>>
> time to kick that
> idea around a bit.
It would be very nice if layouts automatically resized
correctly by themselves. Perhaps when Glass returns ...
> BTW isn't awfully early in the morning in your neck of
> the woods?
>
Insomnia again :(
--
Graham Chiu
[29/40] from: belymt:saunalahti:fi at: 21-Mar-2002 11:39
At 08:07 21.3.2002 +1200, you wrote:
> > Encapped scripts are not cross-platform though, right?
> > And don't our
<<quoted lines omitted: 5>>
>One would provide the encapped Windows version, and a source
>code version.
Yes, please. This would make it ideal for my use.. Easy and hassle free for
windows end-users and full flexibility to other platforms. And just one
program (encapsulator) to buy. That would be clean and easilly managed
solution. Assuming those encapsulated programs need no 'per cpu licenses'
anymore.
Joanna
[30/40] from: belymt:saunalahti:fi at: 21-Mar-2002 11:29
At 16:49 19.3.2002 -0700, you wrote:
>Hi Joanna,
>
><< I could use it if there were free (or very cheap) and easy to install
>runtime for my View.programs. Last time I checked there was none. >>
>
>For non-commercial use, you can use View (not View/Pro), can't you?
My problem is, those View.based helper programs I was hoping to made would
be used to configure/monitor our commercially available embedded
systems. As these controllers have ethernet connectivity, it would be nice
to give some nice and easy gui tools. Somehow I belive I can't claim these
scipts 'non-commercial' even If we didn't bill our clients (and their
clients and end-users) separately for these utilities.
We do have some Java programs... they work but I don't like way java
handles things. And some text mode programs, but we need to keep multiple
binaries for all different systems.. Not good.
One more thing on View. How easy it's reconfigure View so that it can be
only used to start these premade scripts we provide... I'm looking for easy
launchpad for end-users. They have no interest on programming and too many
options can be confusing and get into way.
Joanna
PS: I do hw designing for living.. I'm not prof programmer..
[31/40] from: cyphre:seznam:cz at: 21-Mar-2002 11:41
Hi Graham,
----- Original Message -----
From: "Graham Chiu" <[gchiu--compkarori--co--nz]>
To: <[rebol-list--rebol--com]>
Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2002 9:13 AM
Subject: [REBOL] Re: Community (was IOS).
....It would be very nice if layouts automatically resized
> correctly by themselves. Perhaps when Glass returns ...
>
try: do http://www.rebol.cz/~cyphre/resize.r
This is just a result of 2 hours of experimenting. But I want to improve it
in the near future...
Simmilar(and better) resize handler should be implemented in the next View
IMO.
Regards,
Cyphre
[32/40] from: gscottjones:mchsi at: 21-Mar-2002 6:06
On Wed, 20 Mar 2002 15:43:18 -0600
G. Scott Jones
... wrote:
...
> > BTW isn't awfully early in the morning in your neck of
> > the woods?
From: "Graham Chiu"
> Insomnia again :(
Bummer.
--Scott Jones
[33/40] from: gscottjones:mchsi at: 21-Mar-2002 6:00
From: "Adrian"
> How do you view the "View" part of the
> page? I was unable to run it inside of View.
Hi, Adrian,
If you start-up REBOL/View in the Desktop mode, then click the console icon.
Then type the following line, including the word "do".
do http://www.midwestgypsy.com/hello.html
If you wish to return to the Desktop, then type "desktop".
Hope that helps.
--Scott Jones
[34/40] from: greggirwin:mindspring at: 21-Mar-2002 10:52
Hi Joanna,
<< One more thing on View. How easy it's reconfigure View so that it can be
only used to start these premade scripts we provide... I'm looking for easy
launchpad for end-users. They have no interest on programming and too many
options can be confusing and get into way. >>
It's easy enough to write a script to do that. Configuring the View desktop
could be done by modifying index.r, bookmarks.r, and services.r.
Here's a little launcher script, which requires View/Pro in order to use
CALL. Watch for word wrap.
REBOL []
rebol-exe: to-string to-local-file system/options/boot
to-call-str: func [f [file!]] [to-string to-local-file f]
run-script: func [s] [call rejoin [rebol-exe " " s]]
run: func [cmd /in dir] [
if in [change-dir dir]
call cmd
]
view lay: layout [
origin 0x0
backdrop sky effect [gradcol 0x1 80.80.80 32.32.32]
space 6x0
style ctl vtext
ctl "View Ref" [run-script
%/c/rebol/_view/public/www.rebol.com/view/docs/view-ref.r]
ctl "Easy VID" [run-script
%/c/rebol/_view/public/www.rebol.com/view/demos/easy-vid.r]
ctl "VID Notes" [run-script
%/c/rebol/_view/public/www.codeconscious.com/rebsite/vid-notes.r]
ctl "Easy Draw" [run-script
%/c/rebol/_view/public/www.nwlink.com/~ecotope1/reb/easy-draw.r]
ctl "Core" [run/in to-call-str %/c/rebol/_core/rebol %/c/rebol/_core/]
ctl "View" [call to-call-str %/c/rebol/_view/rebol]
ctl "Shell" [call "cmd.exe"]
ctl "Quit" [quit]
]
--Gregg
[35/40] from: gchiu:compkarori at: 22-Mar-2002 8:39
On Thu, 21 Mar 2002 11:41:23 +0100
"Cyphre" <[cyphre--seznam--cz]> wrote:
> try: do http://www.rebol.cz/~cyphre/resize.r
> This is just a result of 2 hours of experimenting. But I
<<quoted lines omitted: 3>>
> in the next View
> IMO.
Nice, and I agree. View does some things very easily, but
inexplicably, others are so tedious.
--
Graham Chiu
[36/40] from: brett:codeconscious at: 22-Mar-2002 10:47
Eheh. I dropped a cruicial change before posting.
run-script: function [url] [file] [
if exists? file: path-thru url [
replace/all file " " " "
call probe rejoin [rebol-exe " " to-local-file file]
]
]
Sorry to distract from the essential point being that one can have a
customised display to users.
Brett.
[37/40] from: brett:codeconscious at: 22-Mar-2002 10:27
Hi Gregg,
Nice demo. I was chuffed to see vid-notes mentioned too :^)
I just want to draw out of your example that you can start View using a
command line switch to specify a specific script. So
one does not need View/Pro to start a specific script as long as you have
something that can call other programs.
The other thing is I'd like to help ensure the example works on various of
installations. So I modified it to use path-thru and
urls. Modified script below.
Regards,
Brett
REBOL []
rebol-exe: to-string to-local-file system/options/boot
to-call-str: func [f [file!]] [to-string to-local-file f]
run-script: function [url] [file] [
if exists? file: path-thru url [
call rejoin [rebol-exe " " to-local-file file]
]
]
run: func [cmd /in dir] [
if in [change-dir dir]
call cmd
]
view lay: layout [
origin 0x0
backdrop sky effect [gradcol 0x1 80.80.80 32.32.32]
space 6x0
style ctl vtext
ctl "View Ref" [run-script http://www.rebol.com/view/docs/view-ref.r]
ctl "Easy VID" [run-script http://www.rebol.com/view/demos/easy-vid.r]
ctl "VID Notes" [run-script
http://www.codeconscious.com/rebsite/vid-notes.r]
ctl "Easy Draw" [run-script
http://www.nwlink.com/~ecotope1/reb/easy-draw.r]
ctl "Core" [run/in to-call-str %/c/rebol/_core/rebol %/c/rebol/_core/]
ctl "View" [call to-call-str system/options/boot]
ctl "Shell" [call "cmd.exe"]
ctl "Quit" [quit]
]
[38/40] from: greggirwin:mindspring at: 21-Mar-2002 23:17
Hi Brett,
<< I just want to draw out of your example that you can start View using a
command line switch to specify a specific script. So
one does not need View/Pro to start a specific script as long as you have
something that can call other programs. >>
Sorry, I'm in some kind of fog here. This isn't clicking in my head. I know
I should know what you're saying, but I don't. :)
<< The other thing is I'd like to help ensure the example works on various
of
installations. So I modified it to use path-thru and urls. Modified script
below. >>
Excellent! Thanks very much for that.
--Gregg
[39/40] from: brett:codeconscious at: 22-Mar-2002 21:52
> << I just want to draw out of your example that you can start View using a
> command line switch to specify a specific script. So
> one does not need View/Pro to start a specific script as long as you have
> something that can call other programs. >>
>
> Sorry, I'm in some kind of fog here. This isn't clicking in my head. I
know
> I should know what you're saying, but I don't. :)
Well that would be my fault for not being clear. You said you need View/Pro.
I was pointing out that you don't - you could use a batch file or another
program
that can start another process - ie call View with command line argument.
Though if it commercial then I guess you may as well use View/Pro.
Just thinking about it. Another thing that could be done is to modify the
user.r file and call a custom
script directly, a script like your example, and then quit after the call.
Brett.
[40/40] from: greggirwin:mindspring at: 22-Mar-2002 9:47
Hi Brett,
<< I was pointing out that you don't - you could use a batch file or another
program that can start another process - ie call View with command line
argument. >>
Ahh, yes. I was thinking inside the box. :)
<< Just thinking about it. Another thing that could be done is to modify the
user.r file and call a custom script directly, a script like your example,
and then quit after the call. >>
Probably so.
--Gregg
Notes
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View the message alone to see the lines that have been omitted