Encap/Distributions

Hmm. I'd rather own the company the gives them their jobs for the rest of their lives. -- Graham Chiu

That would be O'Reilly (I believe) for Wall, and some arm of the Educational Community for Guido. Me, I like working for myself. :>)

-- Tim Johnson <[tim--johnsons-web--com]> http://www.johnsons-web.com

job for life? ...ouch not so fast... Last year was a pretty rocky year for the Python core crew: They left the CNRI ship when it became clear those hearts/heads were not into the spirit of Python. Found a refuge in a hillside camp at the hideously named 'BeOpen' while patiently dodging a series of energy-zapping ugly licensing-related mortar attacks from CNRI and elsewhere. The Python website even was in question www.python.org -- and was in limbo for ages while a snapshot clone was erected >8-(( Meanwhile Guido got married, and with his crew valiantly released new versions, although the naming and web site support was confusing for many, especially newbies. During this period, the majority of links to Python were demi-obsolete. The BeOpen web site sucked royally. ActivePython was released in the midst of this - basically good news but was greeted with enormous suspicion and paranoia by the otherwise positive and generous Python online community. Installations got pretty mangled for Win32 since ActiveState was sort of sync and presented a forked Python path. The good news was that more people grokked to Python, but on the whole it lost a very crucial years focus, during which time PHP especially came to the respectable fore. Some good python books appeared and Guido and team continued to follow their solid pragmatism. But they announced the CP4E [Computer Programming for Everyone], the ARPA-edu grant project was a casualty. Noble and echoes of that initiative live on Edu-Sig mailing list which tracks the good work on VisualPython, PythonCard, PyGeo and the curriculum work of Kirby Urner and others. The Python-based Zope community grew and after hard work adn an very anxious time, Digital Creations [Zope]landed another $19million VC money to carry them 18 months max. This was when almost everyone else was losing their VC support and dot.bomb became a household name. Then the happy surprise news cam: Guido + crew left the BeOpen ship and signed with Digital Creations [now Zope Corporation]! People were pretty happy about this, feeling it would be good thing for zope and hopefully a better home for Python, but concern still about the long-term status []nobody dared intimate anything about job for life... but the title BDFL {benevolent dictator for live is openly assumed to Guido}. Since then technically things have gone quite well for Python, and we hope personally for the its core team. Good decisions appear to have been made. New releases have introduced good advances and consolidated the mans to allow easy distribution. Though standalone executables is still a big issue for many developers and makes an interesting back-story to the mysterious REBOL/Encap strategy/pricing/news_vacuum. The quality and scope of online coverage of Python has been very good thanks to some key tech journalists at IBM, OReilly and elsewhere. The community grows along with its terrific array of applications modules and super packages. encap: next encap REBOL presently lacks suitable hands-on evangelists in the press. Most stories are old. REBOL/Encap is not articulated anywhere that I can see except by reference and advice to send an email. If Encap is 'shipping' then why not post some demos on rebol.com so people can try it out? This parallels closely again the Zope story where Digital Creations kept _very_ quiet about some major commercial uses of Zope, even as the on-line developer community was clamoring for high-profile commercial examples to help sell their bosses and potential clients with. DC were not making money from Zope, [free+openSource] but they do make money with Zope, from consulting contracts. The lack of clarity, even a few well thought out paragraphs upfront- may do some real damage I fear towards the commercial acceptance of REBOL. If the strategy is not to promote Encap or to hide Rebol [Trojan horse?], then why not directly address the needs of developers and their clients about security/delivery/distribution etc. Suppose one does not need REBOL/Encap but does need to protect code adn have a clear installation? Where is that scenario played out.. What does anyone suggest? So what are the lessons for REBOL in this saga? I believe REBOL/View is a killer toolkit in itself. It is almost a killer app. But that is only the way designers and enthisuastic developers look at it. The rest of the workld need books and demos, and ones which are really simple to install. For some this means one click, single executables, especially on Win32. To bring wider spread public attention and gain some valuable evangelists it still lacks more turnkey apps [Rebol/IOS??] and/or encap executables to accompany. If encap is NOT the a strategy and design philosophy then say so and say it well. If it is crucial then make it accessible and promote it. Rebol and RT are obviously a small smart dedicated group of people with a wonderful technology. Time and resources are scarce for everyone and hopefully in the coming months REBOL/IOS will make things clearer. - Jason

What a difference a year makes!!

Kind of a chicken-or-egg scenario ... :>(. Python has a place in linux because it runs many Linux install and config programs. Really think RT needs to work to get core as part of Linux Distros.

Here's a story for you: System administrator that I know adminsters a Windows 2000 Server. Called RT to ask if Windows 95/98/NT version had been tested on Win 2000. The person on the other end said something like: Try it and let us know how it works. Bad marketing RT. Bad, bad marketing.

Bingo!

I'm the world's worst self-promoter. I never advertise what I can do until I CAN do it. <hint! hint!>

Just one more thought. There is more to IT than dot-coms/dot-bombs, ecommerce etc. And it is a almost totally untouched area. I've written about it. I work in it. But getting people's attention is extremely difficult. So sad. Can you guess what it is? -- Tim Johnson <[tim--johnsons-web--com]> http://www.johnsons-web.com

Sounds like a false rumor to me. We have been testing REBOL on Win 2000 and Win Me for quite a while, even on some XP betas. Unless that sysadmin called during the Win 2000 beta period, or the question was extremely specific (like "Can I do [this] on [that] version of [software] running on Win2000 ?"). Even then the answer would have been different, probably something like We know you can do [this], but have no experience with [that], so we cannot say for sure, sorry. If you try it we would appreciate some feedback. -- Holger Kruse [holger--rebol--com]

On Sun, Oct 21, 2001 at 05:14:23PM -0700, [holger--rebol--com] wrote:

I am quoting as close as possible what was told to me by that system administrator. She was requested to install the rebol binary. Her concern was that (again I am paraphrasing her), ==>>some executables compiled and tested in a windows/95/98/NT environment will not function properly in Windows 2000. It is my humble opinion, that if RT knows that rebol 2.5.0.3.1 is good to go on Windows 2000, that it be stated so at http://www.rebol.com/platforms.html Being able to Install rebol with that ISP would have opened another (small) door to rebol useage. These folks would have otherwise been VERY interested in rebol because of what would be your network savvy operation, security and stability. Perhaps, Holger - I could put you directly in touch with her, if anybody could sell her on rebol, you could. Let me know, and I will play "match maker" if need be. It would be a good thing for all parties concerned. regards tim

-- Tim Johnson <[tim--johnsons-web--com]> http://www.johnsons-web.com

Yes, unfortunately that page has not been updated in a while. Other download pages, e.g. the one for View, explicitly list Windows 2000 and Me.

Thanks, I would appreciate that. -- Holger Kruse [holger--rebol--com]