FYI: Once was lost but now is found (Editor window in view)
[1/11] from: brett:codeconscious at: 21-Nov-2001 14:32
I had a minor problem with clicking on text icons in the Rebol/View desktop
which I've now solved.
The editor would not show up on the screen (though it did as a task button
on the task bar in NT4). I tried a reinstall but no change.
Turns out a setting called "OFFSET" in edit-prefs.r got screwed up somehow.
It had a setting of -30000 something for the x and y parts of the pair -
which is off in never never land. Thus the editor was working I just
couldn't see it :)
Setting the offset to something more reasonable like 34x34 solved my
problem.
Cheers
Brett.
[2/11] from: ammonjohnson:yaho:o at: 20-Nov-2001 22:02
Just a neat trick, that I found one day, (Only for windows) if you have a
window that appears in the taskbar, but not on the screen, right click the
taskbar button, select Move from the context menu, for the final touch of
magic, press any one of the arrow keys, now when you move the mouse around
the window will follow!
HTH
Ammon
[3/11] from: jasonic:panix at: 21-Nov-2001 0:27
> Just a neat trick, that I found one day, (Only for windows) if you have a
> window that appears in the taskbar, but not on the screen, right click the
> taskbar button, select Move from the context menu, for the final touch of
> magic, press any one of the arrow keys, now when you move the mouse around
> the window will follow!
Thanks..yes very nice.
KeyKit uses something like that too. KeyKit is a superb MIDI processing
environment complete with its own object-oriented language whcih is also
used for the very clever KeyKit graphical user interface. Very good ideas
there at many levels. Like ERBOL, powerful, deep, moutains of fun.
http://nosuch.com/keykit/
I still miss the Amiga's screens! Anyone ever seen that anywhere else?
KeyKit has a wonderful 'pages' metaphor which is sort like like a static
version of it
[no window shade dynamics]. It allows one to reduce visual [widget] clutter,
but it also becomes a cool highlevel object handling interface. One can save
and load the contents of any page much like REBOl handles files and ports. I
recommend any REBOLERS really into REBOL/View or and thinking of extensions
to play aroudn wiht KeyKit for couple of hours to see what I am talking
about.
Free, with source code, and executables for Win95/NT, Linux, and Macintosh.
<OT: hotjkeygeekiness>
It always seems like the good UI ideas in Windows are the lost and forgotten
ones.
Usually one stumbles across them when the cat decid to talk a stroll or I
drop the phone or somethnig. My favorite [non-obscure ] top N win
timessavers:
1. maximize all windows most of the time
2. WINDOWS/"START" + m = Mimimize ALL
3. ALT+TAB to get what you want or ALT+SHIFT+TAB if its a long list of open
stuff
4. periodically when too many windows are open clean up again with WIN/START
+ m
5. WIN/START + e = opens up file explorer
6 TAB, backsapce and the 4 arrow keys do all the rest. adding SHIFT
reverses the work flow
The main reason I like this is it encourages 2-handed computing. I am not
religous about it, but when doing heavy repetitive graphics work, way with 6
apps [dreamweaver, flash, ACDSee, Fireworks, UltraEdit, IE] plus folders for
media content this really kicks in.
</OT>
./Jason
[4/11] from: ammonjohnson:y:ahoo at: 20-Nov-2001 23:42
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jason Cunliffe" <[jasonic--panix--com]>
To: <[rebol-list--rebol--com]>
Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2001 10:27 PM
Subject: [REBOL] Re: FYI: Once was lost but now is found (Editor window in
view)
<snip>
> I still miss the Amiga's screens! Anyone ever seen that anywhere else?
Been to long since I have seen them, what are you refering to?
<snip>
> <OT: hotjkeygeekiness>
> It always seems like the good UI ideas in Windows are the lost and
forgotten
> ones.
> Usually one stumbles across them when the cat decid to talk a stroll or I
> drop the phone or somethnig. My favorite [non-obscure ] top N win
> timessavers:
<snip>
And thank YOU! I was never aware that the Win/Start key was good for
ANYTHING!
> The main reason I like this is it encourages 2-handed computing. I am not
> religous about it, but when doing heavy repetitive graphics work, way with
6
> apps [dreamweaver, flash, ACDSee, Fireworks, UltraEdit, IE] plus folders
for
> media content this really kicks in.
> </OT>
LOL! You & I could relate a lot I am sure! BUT I prefer CorelDRAW Suite.
Enjoy!!
Ammon
[5/11] from: jasonic:panix at: 21-Nov-2001 0:57
> LOL! You & I could relate a lot I am sure! BUT I prefer CorelDRAW Suite.
mmhmm.. Corel TRACE Utility in CorelDraw10 is a favorite.
XaraX is a very nice tool which Corel had picked up but has gone indie
again:
http://www.xara.com/
[download their 30 day demo and check out the transparency tool!]
./Jason
[6/11] from: jasonic:panix at: 21-Nov-2001 1:29
> > I still miss the Amiga's screens! Anyone ever seen that anywhere else?
>
> Been to long since I have seen them, what are you refering to?
Well each application could open its own 'screen' if wanted do. And also
open little rectangular windows, but they were/are boring. Screens were fun
because they were FULL screen graphic displays. No freaking borders where
you did not need them - a better illusion of UI immersion, not just into the
application but into the cyber-screen of the computer.
Use the implied depth of the computer display. Instead of this !~#$# little
rectangle boxes graphic clutter oppression we have now as standard.
Depth: I always liked the way Amiga softened that line between computer and
TV. Screens were the means. Depth was/is the goal. Moving depth..
Some programs used half-size screens as funky tool palettes. Most for the
display output related to a graphics generation design screen of the same
application.
In the beginning, before anything else, adn for a long time after, when you
multi-tasked a bunch of programs you could blow people's minds first by
flipping though the open applications, using the Amiga equivalent of
Windows' ALT+TAB.
But the really hilarious thing, was that you could then grab the top of each
screen and drag it down some or all of the way to reveal the running
applications behind. Like it was a vertical descending garage door in a
parking lot, sinking into the floor, a digital version of the famous
Get-Smart
title sequence. As you kept pulling down the successive screens
you could discover all this wierd Amiga graphic stuff going on: Conway's
game of life behind Fracgen behind DPaint behind RGS behind ...
Teh effect was enhanced because the screens colors wre almost alwyas
different. Often really garish, which people loved to complain about. but
the cumulative effect was so much fun.
Full screen flash running with full-screen REBOL/View offer a means to
create a deeper immersive graphic UI simplicity. Using image viewers like
ACDSee you can view lots of graphics files in continuous immersive slide
show mode. So much better for review, concentration and presentation. A
scrolling mouse [with wheel] lets you fly back and forth through the images,
while keeping your minds+eyes on the art, not the UI. YES!
./Jason
[7/11] from: tomc:darkwing:uoregon at: 20-Nov-2001 22:55
On Wed, 21 Nov 2001, Jason Cunliffe wrote:
> > > I still miss the Amiga's screens! Anyone ever seen that anywhere else?
> >
<<quoted lines omitted: 4>>
> you did not need them - a better illusion of UI immersion, not just into the
> application but into the cyber-screen of the computer.
Edward Tufte refered this mandatory border open_on_top_of and
contained by a homogonized desktop as "Operating System Imperialism"
> Use the implied depth of the computer display. Instead of this !~#$# little
> rectangle boxes graphic clutter oppression we have now as standard.
<<quoted lines omitted: 17>>
> different. Often really garish, which people loved to complain about. but
> the cumulative effect was so much fun.
the screens could also be running at different resolutions
[8/11] from: sanghabum::aol::com at: 21-Nov-2001 6:18
[brett--codeconscious--com] writes:
> Turns out a setting called "OFFSET" in edit-prefs.r got screwed up somehow.
> It had a setting of -30000 something for the x and y parts of the pair -
> which is off in never never land. Thus the editor was working I just
> couldn't see it :)
For what it's worth: if you are using Windows:....
If you minimise a VIEW LAYOUT window (e.g. click the "_" symbol at the
topright of the window) its offset gets set to 3000x3000.
It looks like RT were one variable short of a control structure, and decided
to overload the OFFSET variable.
It's a pain if you have a multi-layout design (eg a working window and a
floating control panel). You can't just ACTIVATE or (re)-VIEW a layout if
your user has minimised it.
Colin.
[9/11] from: brett:codeconscious at: 21-Nov-2001 23:03
Hi Colin,
> If you minimise a VIEW LAYOUT window (e.g. click the "_" symbol at the
> topright of the window) its offset gets set to 3000x3000.
Aha. Well that certainly cause the problem.
Minimise the editor, then right click on the nt task bar and close the
window without
restoring it. Offset gets set to -31999x-31999 which was my problem.
An annoying bug that needs squashing.
Brett.
[10/11] from: greggirwin:mindspring at: 21-Nov-2001 10:44
THANK YOU BRETT!
I had lost the editor and tried reinstalling to no avail as well.
--Gregg
[11/11] from: ammonjohnson:yah:oo at: 21-Nov-2001 17:25
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jason Cunliffe" <[jasonic--panix--com]>
To: <[rebol-list--rebol--com]>
Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2001 10:57 PM
Subject: [REBOL] Re: FYI: Once was lost but now is found (Editor window in
view)
> > LOL! You & I could relate a lot I am sure! BUT I prefer CorelDRAW
Suite.
> mmhmm.. Corel TRACE Utility in CorelDraw10 is a favorite.
>
> XaraX is a very nice tool which Corel had picked up but has gone indie
> again:
> http://www.xara.com/
> [download their 30 day demo and check out the transparency tool!]
I had heard that Corel got that, but didn't ever see anything so I just
wondered...
Enjoy!!
Ammon
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